On Episode 6 of the Arthritis Life Podcast, Vanessa shares how she initially controlled her disease through diet alone, then had a massive flare-up which led to a crucial conversation with an integrated Rheumatologist who helped her come to terms with blending Western medicine with alternative approaches.
He also encouraged her to heal her emotional wounds from childhood, which led her to learn self-compassion and other daily practices which help her maintain wellness today.
Vanessa Cameron discovered her passion for hacking her mind and body amid a debilitating bout with Rheumatoid Arthritis. After learning about the emerging science of Self-Compassion and the benefits of meditation, EFT (tapping) and NLP (neuro-linguistic programming) she began incorporating daily science-backed practices that boosted her health and happiness. Her passion led her to start and earn master level practitioner certification to teach EFT and NLP.
Cheryl Crow is an occupational therapist who has lived with rheumatoid arthritis for seventeen years. She is passionately dedicated to helping others with rheumatoid arthritis figure out how to successfully navigate daily challenges so they can live a life they love despite arthritis. She formed the educational company Arthritis Life in 2019 after seeing a huge need for more engaging, accessible, and (dare she say) FUN patient education and self-management resources.
This interview was conducted in December 2019.
MEDICAL DISCLAIMER: All content found on Arthritis Life public channels was created for generalized informational purposes only. The content is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
Links discussed in this episode:
- Vanessa’s Website: www.isparkdaily.com
- Vanessa’s Instagram @isparkdaily
- Integrated Rheumatologist – Dr. Mir https://www.nyir.com/
- “ACEs” study (Adverse Childhood Events)
- 8 week self compassion meditation class at Stanford
- Tara Brach – The RAIN of Self-Compassion
- ACT – Acceptance and Commitment Therapy
- Cheryl’s Facebook group: Arthritis Life Podcast, Practical Tips & Positive, Realistic Support
- Free Handout: Cheryl’s Master Checklist for Managing RA
- This episode is brought to you by the Beginner’s Guide to Life with Rheumatoid Arthritis, an intensive 4 week online education and support program Cheryl created to empower people with the tools to confidently manage their social, emotional and physical life with rheumatoid arthritis.
- Medical disclaimer
Detailed episode breakdown:
- 3:00 Beginning signs of RA
- 4:30 – Massive flare up, feeling “stuck” in life overall
- 7:10 – Vanessa experiments with dietary changes and finds a diet that helps her inflammation
- 11:00 – Massive flare up leads to confusion.
- 15:00 – How she found a good fit with her doctor
- 19:00 – How a trusting relationship with Dr. Mir helped Vanessa accept western medications.
- 21:33 – Vanessa’s low point after contacting the flu.
- 22:00 – Recognizing she needs to address emotional scars from her past.
- 26:30- How Vanessa used Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT) – Tapping + Journaling to work through her emotional scars (such as being told she’s “too emotional”), and learning to take an energy inventory
- 31:30 – How a daily self-compassion meditation course helped.
- 33:10 – Summary of the lifestyle changes she made to manage her wellness on a daily basis
- 38:14 – How RA struggle now seems like a blessing in disguise
- 39:20 – How joining a Buddhist community sparked resilience.
- 42:19 – Vanessa’s advice to newly diagnosed patients
- 44:17 – How RA affected her experiences in the workplace, how she learned to advocate
- 44:40 – How she explains RA to people who don’t know anything about it
- 46:00 – How both Cheryl & Vanessa learned to say no!
- 49:50 – Lifestyle changes, including saying no and managing energy
- 51:00- Vanessa worked with an autoimmune health coach.
- 52:20 – Learning to see Pain as a messenger
- 53:07 – How EFT helped Vanessa get to the root of her emotions
- 54:30 – Cheryl talks about how ACT helped her manage difficult emotions.
- 56:00 – Discussion of Tara Brach’s “RAIN of self-compassion”
- 59:50 – Concluding thoughts about how Cheryl & Vanessa came to terms with being comfortable sharing their RA and emotional stories.
Full Transcript:
[00:00:00] Cheryl:
[Introductory music]
Hi there! I’m so excited to welcome you to The Arthritis Life podcast where we share arthritis life stories and tips for thriving with autoimmune arthritis. My name is Cheryl Crow and I am passionate about helping people navigate real life with arthritis beyond joint pain. I’ve been living with rheumatoid arthritis for 20 years and I’m also a mom, occupational therapist, video creator, support group leader, and I created the Rheum to THRIVE self-management program.
I am so excited to help you live a more empowered life with arthritis. We’re going to cover everything from kitchen life hacks, to navigating the healthcare system, to coping with friends who just don’t get it. Seriously, no topic is going to be off limits on this podcast. My interviewees and I share our honest stories of how chronic illness affects our lives. This includes discussions about mental health, sex, shame, pregnancy, body image, advocacy, self-acceptance, and so much more. You’ll hear stories from all ends of the spectrum from a person who’s living in medicated remission from psoriatic arthritis to somebody living with severe mobility restrictions and severe pain from rheumatoid arthritis.
You’ll hear how people manage their conditions in different ways like medications, mindfulness, movement, social support, work accommodations, and so much more. You’ll also hear from rheumatology experts who just get it. We’ll dive deep into the science behind chronic pain and what’s the latest evidence for lifestyle changes that can help you thrive with arthritis, including exercise, sleep, nutrition, stress reduction, and more. This is your chance to sit down and chat with a friend who’s been there. Ready to figure out how to manage your arthritis life? Let’s get started.
Hi, everybody! So, a lot of times, the treatments for arthritis are kind of posed as a binary. Like, you could either do Western medicine or Eastern or alternative routes. But really, as our guest today will tell you about, your journey with inflammatory arthritis can actually include phases of alternative medicines and/or traditional Western medicine, plus things like spirituality, mindfulness, and more. And what I love about my conversation with Vanessa today is that we actually had really different journeys in terms of our treatment approaches. Like, I was 100% all about Western medicines, you know, after my initial diagnosis, but both Vanessa and I have really similar interests in exploring the emotional and mental aspects of living and coping with rheumatoid arthritis. So, this episode goes really, really deep into that. And I cannot wait for you to hear Vanessa’s journey and insights.
Hi, my name is Cheryl Crow, and I am passionate about helping people navigate real life with arthritis. I’ve lived with rheumatoid arthritis for 17 years, and I’m also a mom, teacher, and occupational therapist. I’m so excited to share my tricks for managing the ups and downs of life with arthritis. Everything from kitchen life hacks to how to respond when people say, “You don’t look sick.” Stress, work, sex, anxiety, fatigue, pregnancy, and parenting with chronic illness. No topic will be off limits here. I’ll also talk to other patients and share their stories and advice. Think of this as your chance to sit down and chat with a friend who’s been there. Ready to figure out how to manage your arthritis life? Let’s get started.
So, Vanessa, can you tell me a little bit about yourself?
[00:03:43] Vanessa:
Sure. So, I live in New York, New York. I live in Morningside Heights. I was actually raised between Brooklyn, New York, where my whole family is from. But then, I was raised mostly in Rockland County and I grew up on an organic farm. And that, interestingly enough, does play out in my RA story in terms of my mindset and how I’ve approached my healing. Because the community that I grew up in was pretty holistic. I grew up really believing that the mind and the body are inextricably linked, and so I couldn’t help when I found that I was having this, you know, this pain and this stiffness to think that there was some component of it that was perhaps diet, that was definitely there was a maybe an emotional component. So, that really shaped how I approached my illness.
[00:04:38] Cheryl:
And speaking of, you know, your experience with having an illness, can you tell me a little bit about your diagnosis story?
[00:04:45] Vanessa:
Sure. So, I was first diagnosed about eight years ago. And I was 26. Though if I really look at the time frame, I actually was beginning to have symptoms at 24. I was actually at FIT at the time, and I was having pain in my hands. And I remember, actually, people even asking me, you know, “Is there something wrong? Like, your fingers are swollen.” And I really just had no explanation for it. I mean, I remember thinking, well, maybe I’m clenching my hands when I’m sleeping. And I was working really hard because I was at the Fashion Institute of Technology. And at the time, I was doing my second degree in ad design. And I was working a lot, I was interning, so it just made sense to me that maybe I was stressed and I was clenching my hands. So, that was what I thought was happening, though I didn’t really realize that the fatigue levels that I had were really not normal. I mean, every day I would have to take a nap. I mean, I was exhausted. And it became — it was a gradual shift, and yet now that I look back in terms of how I feel now, and I almost can’t believe I didn’t realize it. But it happened very gradually over a couple of years.
Then, I woke up one day, and my entire body was in pain at 26. And it was really like that quick. It went from, you know, gradual, gradual inflammation, but like low level enough that I could overlook it. And then, oh, my God, what’s wrong? And that day, I actually was at my best friend’s home in Connecticut, and it was the summertime, and it was also really humid. And I woke up, and the place, her home, was really air conditioned. So, I thought, oh, that’s why, you know, it’s the cold, you know, it’s, you know, and I was walking down the stairs, my knees, I noticed my knees were actually really swollen. And it was at breakfast that I remember saying to her, “You know, Lauren, I don’t know, I think there’s something wrong, but I don’t know. It’s, my whole body hurts.”
[00:06:56] Cheryl:
Wow. And this is resonating with me because it was similar to mine as well. And I think as a young person, there’s often so many different explanations. Like, I’m tired all the time. Well, is it that I’m working so hard? Is it that I’m out with friends late at night and maybe I’m just not getting enough sleep? And it’s always like there’s these different excuses until you wake up that day where it, there’s no —
[00:07:17] Vanessa:
I really felt like I hit this kind of like, you know, the analogy I’m thinking of is, you know, a car in the mud and you keep trying to move the car and the wheels are not turning. And I really felt like it was across every area of my life that I felt stuck. And so, when this happened, it was interesting because I thought, wow, this is actually a physical manifestation of me feeling that way. And so, it made me kind of take note and dig deeper to think maybe there is a, there is an emotional component to this because it doesn’t feel random that I have this stiffness in my body because I feel this stuckness in my life.
To give a little more context of what was happening, I had just accepted a job that I knew — I accepted a job because I actually got a huge raise in accepting it. But as soon as I was there for a week, I knew I was going to have to leave. it was just really the wrong environment. The job wasn’t what they promised. there was a relationship that I had gotten into that fell apart that I was really hopeful about. I had this idea for a company that I wanted to start that I had been making all of these presentations about, and I couldn’t get myself to take that next step from idea to execution. And I had this paralyzing fear of failure. So, those are some of the things and signs that I — and symptoms that I had — lifewise. And so, when this happened, I really did feel that there was some significance to it happening, that it wasn’t random, that there was maybe even a meaning that I didn’t fully understand.
[00:08:56] Cheryl:
Can you describe a little bit how you actually got the diagnosis and maybe how you managed it initially?
[00:09:02] Vanessa:
Started looking into what kinds of dietary changes I could make because it was, that’s one thing that was accessible to me without benefits, right. And I looked at what I was eating at that time. I was eating so many carbs, but, you know, or we metabolize the sugar and I wasn’t really eating enough protein. And the other thing that I did was I did an elimination diet completely on my own, which ideally you have a little bit of guidance from nutritionists. So, it was really just all plant-based foods. I removed things that are potential allergens. So, soy, I removed dairy, I removed gluten. Yeah. Two weeks of that. And my inflammation went away.
[00:09:46] Cheryl:
Wow.
[00:09:47] Vanessa:
And it was severe. It was full body inflammation. I mean, it was really bad. You know, and so that was kind of mind blowing to me that this simple diet, I mean, I couldn’t sustain it forever because of the energy. I was still, you know, not as energetic, right? But the inflammation stopped.
[00:10:06] Cheryl:
Wow. Yeah, everything I had heard and I’ve been following it over, you know, over a number of years is that there’s not a clear, like, one clear diet that can help manage the disease to an extreme level for everyone, but your particular story, obviously, is a testament to that for some people, it can have a dramatic effect, so.
[00:10:25] Vanessa:
And then, when I started adding the foods back in, what I noticed for me was a trigger was dairy. So, it just, it’s kind of a retraining of what to look for because we’re not trained to look for these things. So, I had to do some self-education and I do recommend becoming more aware of it because it can make a difference. So, it, you know, it was kind of just this experimental period where I figured out this makes me tired, this is okay, this works, this doesn’t work. And once I had a formula, which is pretty much a vegan diet with, again, I eat eggs. But that worked so well for me.
And within really three months or so, I had my full energy back at a level I never even knew I could have that much energy. Like, I really, maybe since I was like, a little kid. I had a lot more — I don’t know, it was weird. It kind of unstuck something in me. Facing this, being really disciplined about it, and meeting it with a sense of, I guess, tenacity. You know, like this is happening. This is really hard. But I’m going to find my way through it. And it was just a mind, it was just a shift in my mind, not seeing myself as helpless. Because when I realized that there were these things that were making me feel better that I could control, it really was very empowering. And it gave me a sense of, oh, I can overcome, like, this is not going to be the end of my life or it’s not going to hold me back from being the woman I want.
[00:11:58] Cheryl:
And it sounded like that kind of persisted, that state of energy and feeling. You know, tenacious, and you have great self-efficacy, and you’re living your best life, and that lasted for four years, right?
[00:12:11] Vanessa:
Yeah, it lasted for almost four years. So, and it was a long enough stretch that I, with really no inflammation in that period. So, it was this amazing stretch of energy, of good health. And I kind of took it for granted. I felt like, you know, oh, I’ve got this sorted. And then, what happened was, as my life got more and more stressful because I was taking on more and more things, starting my own company, I was working full-time in advertising, had, you know, leadership roles. So, I had a lot of responsibilities. And then, there was a lot of family stuff that was happening at the same time. All of those things together really just, were this perfect storm for me getting ill again. And it was really hard for me to acknowledge that was happening. I had denial about it. And I, you know, immediately was on it though. I was getting the acupuncture, which I found helpful. I was going really, again, to being really diligent and stringent with the diet, anti-inflammatory diet. And it was getting worse. Which was mind blowing because I didn’t understand why.
I had a sense of feeling defeated. And, and I didn’t want to accept defeat, but I felt defeat. I remember thinking, my spark is gone. And, you know, at the times when I’ve been happiest and healthiest in my life, I really had this feeling in my chest of like a glow of light. And when I have that, it feels like no matter what challenge I can face it, I have everything I want. And then, at this point, it really felt like it was snuffed out. Like, that spark in me was gone. And so, I felt very lost. I didn’t know, like, is it — did I, like, lose it forever? Where did it go? How do I get it back? The stress, and then I think what the stress brings, which is a sense of, like, loss of who I really feel like I am.
[00:14:09] Cheryl:
I can so identify with so much of that. It’s like, for me, it was when Enbrel stopped working, which was my first biologic. But I totally was optimistic. I thought I was just going to be on Enbrel forever. And I felt great. And I totally took it for granted. I had no idea that the biologics could wear off. And then, when it did, I was like, oh, I really grieved, you know, the diagnosis for me for the first time. But back to your story, is this when you found your integrated rheumatologist?
[00:14:36] Vanessa:
There was an in — there was an in between. She was very by the book. So, basically, you know, my experience with practitioners, I’ve seen three rheumatologists in total. The first one was when I was diagnosed. And he was really dismissive of my, of my alternative path, but I parted ways with him very quickly because I was able to get my condition in remission with my natural approach. So, I didn’t need him for the last three. And then, when I was having this, you know, the second wave of RA, and my alternative path wasn’t working. You know, my doctor, she was very by the book, and, you know, she just, the standard of care approach to RA. She in a sense made me feel this sense of, oh, it’s not as bad as I think. If I just take these three medications, my life’s gonna be better. That’s really how she made everything sound. Where I was really stuck was that my case didn’t make sense to me.
I became kind of like a detective because I was trying to understand why did it flare up again? Like, I had it in remission, what happened? I started looking into it. When you have, you know, when you have RA, and you have, in my case, I had an infection that I didn’t know I had, and I had it for many months. And it was, you know, like a low level infection, but that actually triggered my RA to flare up again because my immune system was trying to fight this infection in my body and I didn’t know I had. And that’s why those natural things were not going to work because they weren’t enough. They weren’t an antibiotic. So, that’s what I needed was a — so I really want people to know about this, interestingly enough, when I was seeing two doctors at one point, because I wanted to try them both out, and my insurance told me that I could try both doctors out. It was kind of funny, because I almost felt like I was cheating on them, because they were both really near each other, and I had back-to-back appointments between both doctors.
And there was a moment where I realized that it wasn’t going to work with this woman. I had a list of questions for her. And as I got to, I think, number two on my list of maybe five questions, she puts her hand on me and she goes, “I’m sorry, I don’t have time.” And I said, “That’s okay, neither do I.” So, I really had clarity because I was going back and forth between these two doctors. But, you know, my current doctor, Dr. Mir, he, to this day, you know, I’ve seen him now almost four years, has never told me he doesn’t have time.
[00:17:17] Cheryl:
And he is a rheumatologist.
[00:17:18] Vanessa:
He’s a rheumatologist. Yeah. An integrated rheumatologist. It’s very rare. And his story is interesting. He found his way to doing integrated rheumatology because he had an autoimmune condition himself. And he said he tried the treatments. He was so unhappy with how they, you know, worked with him and his body, that he started seeking other things. You know, it’s interesting. The reason that I wasn’t quite sure when I was going back and forth between these two doctors was because on one hand, this woman gave me this sense of actually certainty at a very uncertain time. She was very positive. She handed me this Rx card and said, “You know, you take these three medications and you’re going to be better in a month.” And she said it very, with such a sense of clarity, and she was super sure of herself, like it was a formula.
[00:18:12] Cheryl:
And I think that, like, in the defense of doctors who do that, like, there is a lot of evidence that some of these medicines are really effective for a lot of patients. But it doesn’t sound like she was listening, like, you’re not just, like, the by-the-book patient.
[00:18:28] Vanessa:
Yeah, really felt like I was just any patient who had walked in, patient number three. I didn’t feel like she was really able to, yes, meet me where I was, be empathetic to what I was struggling with. And then, with Dr. Mir, what was really interesting is when I asked him a lot of questions, he was very honest that he didn’t know the answer. And I had mixed feelings about that because one part of me liked the certainty that the other doctor offered because it felt like what I wanted to hear it at very uncertain time. But on the other hand, in a sense, I actually trusted Dr. Mir more because he was actually telling me the truth.
Every patient’s really different, and we actually are really just trying these different medications one by one to see what works. Even though I didn’t like the sound of that, I did believe that that was gonna be more accurate to what it would be. It’s really an experiment with these meds. The fact that he listened to me, and that he was open and honest about not knowing ultimately made me choose him. And in the, yes, in terms of him being a holistic doctor, or integrated is how he describes himself, that really drew me in too, because I knew the kind of path that I’ve taken, I wanted to find a doctor that was going to work with me on that path, not resist me.
[00:19:52] Cheryl:
And I think, I think it’s hard, because I think some of them do see people who get completely off track and get kind of fed these like conspiracy theories and then do things. And then, like two years later they come back and their joints are like totally deformed and they’re like, oh, my gosh, this could have been prevented. But again, in your case, you were responding to the data of your own life. It’s just, it’s a great example of finding the right fit for you and a doctor. Cause like, and some people don’t want to even open the door. Like, I felt like nutrition was like a rabbit hole that I was like too overwhelmed to go down. I just, it was like, give me Enbrel, I’m fine, you know, like, you know, so that’s like, there’s, that was the right doctor for me, you know, the one that just gave you the meds. So, again, the perfect fit between you as a patient and the provider is this kind of, it’s almost like a dance, you know?
[00:20:37] Vanessa:
That’s a great way of describing it because it, it became that. He really also was the only doctor, I think, the only doctor I did listen to about taking medication. When you maybe have, like I did, have success with taking a natural approach, it’s not easy to be convinced that you need to take three different immune suppressants. It’s a really big shift, and that’s what he was telling me. He actually had the same approach in terms of medicine as the other doctor did, but his manner was really different and his mindset was really different. So, because of the state of I was in at that point, he had an analogy that helped me. He said, “Vanessa, we have to save your joints.” He said, “You’re, the house is on fire.” And that analogy of the house being on fire helped me realize that I had to take action and that he, as an integrative rheumatologist, wouldn’t tell me I needed this unless he really believed that I did.
[00:21:41] Cheryl:
And he said that the medicine is going to put the fire out, right? But then, you’re going to, after the fire’s put out, you can—
[00:21:49] Vanessa:
We’ll work together on an approach that’s long-term. But right now, we need to save your joints.
[00:21:57] Cheryl:
What a great example of like the same kind of basic recommendation being packaged so differently. Not just packaged as in like, I’m giving you this didactic information, but it’s like based on a relationship that he was able to develop with you.
[00:22:13] Vanessa:
Yeah, it’s a relationship where I trusted him and where I really felt like he was seeing the whole picture. It was a hard step to take the medication at first, you know. I think I was first put on methotrexate and then prednisone and then eventually Humira. Humira I did not do well on, and so I only really, I think, had one injection of that. The timing was also odd because I ended up getting, even though I had the flu shot, I ended up getting the flu while I was on all these different meds. And I got very, very ill. Yeah, it was, it was hard. That was my lowest point. And I got in a taxi, because I was actually scared. I had so little energy. I thought, there’s something not right here. I shouldn’t feel like this. I couldn’t even do basic tasks. I got in a taxi. I told him I needed to see him the same day, Dr. Mir. I went in. And I was just in tears. I was really, really struggling.
And I asked him, I said, “Is this the best I can hope for my life?” And I said, “I feel like I’m doing everything you’re telling me to do and I’m still so sick and I don’t know what to do.” And this, I really credit to him with his ability to be empathetic and compassionate. He said, “Vanessa,” he said, “I wouldn’t say this to everyone, but for you, my sense is you have emotional scars. And that if you can really work on that, make that your focus right now,” he said, “I really feel that that’s going to help you and that everything we’re going to do is going to, is going to work better.” And it really hit me when he said that. I was obsessing over like eating perfectly. I was doing the juicing thing. I was kind of like OCD And so, then when he said the emotional thing, I kind of knew that was true, but I didn’t know what to do about it.
And so, a doctor, my doctor telling me that? I took it much more seriously. I started really thinking about, how do I address emotional scars? I had been doing therapy actually for a year. I had been, I thought, taking all the steps needed. I was doing CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy. And the reason being, you know, I grew up with a pretty dysfunctional family. I mean, I’m not going to go into all the depths of it, but suffice to say, you know, I grew up with a parent, one who was wonderful, but working all the time. And the other one who was, it’s really like a borderline type person. So, there’s a lot of sense of, I guess, emotional abandonment. And so, I really struggle to be in connection with my emotions. Like, even in relationships, I would hit a point where I would feel like the kind of all the heart emotions, like vulnerable or scared, and I would just shut down. I couldn’t feel those feelings.
And so, when he talked about emotional scars, it was interesting because it gave it a sense of like, this is a real thing. Like, this isn’t just my imagination. Like, I actually have emotional scars. The other thing that I wanted to mention here, just to make this not just about me is that there is this study that’s really widely known and regarded, the ACEs study, adverse childhood experiences. They know that when, you know, at a young age we experience these different kinds of adverse childhood experiences, there’s a direct relationship with developing chronic illnesses just because the level of stress is so high. And we know that stress triggers illness and the development of illness. And so, when I heard this information from him, I started to dig into what are some ways I can deal with this where I’m actually dealing, getting to the root of the issue. Because I realized that CBT was great, but not probably ideal for trauma.
[00:26:29] Cheryl:
I so strongly feel that. And my current therapist, he actually described that, he says that, you know, there’s been like these three waves in psychology and psychiatry. There’s like, the first wave was like psychotherapy, Freud. And the second wave was CBT. Third wave is mindfulness. I think that’s the current way if people are realizing — and it’s not the CBT isn’t helpful. But like sitting there and like debating whether your thoughts are like a distortion or not doesn’t really affect the baseline psychological process that’s going on. And so, anyway, I’m such a big fan of mindfulness and acceptance-based. They’ve worked so much better for me than with CBT, I just felt like I was just feeding the fire of like arguing with my thoughts.
Some of the experience, adverse experiences I had during the childhood of my experience with physical health challenges, it’s almost like those experiences when I, for the first two years before my diagnosis of RA, I got dismissed constantly by providers, I was accused of lying, I was accused of having an eating disorder. I was, and like that almost feels like, for me, an adverse childhood experience in my journey of a health health issue because then my subsequent health experiences have been I’m not it under this lens of defensiveness that I built up. Because I was like, no, something’s wrong. Something’s wrong. And you’re all telling me that I’m that it’s not and I’m just, it’s all in my head. And anyway, so, and it sounded like you discovered like meditation.
[00:27:56] Vanessa:
Yeah. Yes. So, there’s really a few key things that gave me this ray of hope and guided my second wave of recovery, which by the way, was way harder than the first wave of recovery. But coming through the other side, I feel like all the tools that I learned are just so applicable for the rest of my life. So, the first tool that I used really right away after he told me that was Emotional Freedom Technique, sometimes called tapping. I had learned it prior because I was having a lot of anxiety and also anxious dreams, but I never had used it to deal with kind of things from the past. I was more just using it reactively when I was stressed, which it really did work for. So, what I did was I started journaling about these emotional scars. And I knew what they were right away. There was really no, like, question in my mind.
You know, one of the first things, believe it or not, as simple as it sounds, was I had such an insecurity about how sensitive I am as a person. And I had been, I had been from a very young age told that I was too sensitive. My teacher — I cried all the time because I was so sensitive. My teacher said I was doing it for attention. So, there were a lot of early kind of wounds for me about how sensitive I am. I’ve now learned there’s a term for this called ’empath’. I did a lot of journaling around this. There was seven things that I journaled about. Things, basically things that I didn’t like about myself. And not about what I look like, nothing to do with that. It was really things about me that I was really insecure about because people had told me, “Hey, these things are not okay,” in some way.
[00:29:40] Cheryl:
Right.
[00:29:41] Vanessa:
And so, I took this approach where like one day I would work on one. And what I would do is I would journal about the experience, the memories around it. And then, I would get to a point where I would feel all of this pain in my body. And I would feel like these emotions, like kind of like yucky emotions all coming up. And it was, it was amazing because they were old emotions, but I had never processed them. And so, what I was doing was I was, you know, tapping. You tap on the meridians. Alongside tapping on these meridians, you say these affirmations. So, the affirmations are very simple. It’s, “Even though I feel,” and then I would fill in the blank with emotions. Often, there were many emotions that were coming up at the same time.
It was really interesting because, I mean, I cried so deeply. from these, from these old memories, but as I was doing the tapping, it really felt like I was able to get the emotions out and also get clear on what those feelings really were. By the time I had done maybe five rounds of tapping, it really didn’t feel like that big of a deal anymore, you know, and I was also able to see those attributes that I had seen as like weaknesses as actually also good things, you know, like, I’m really perceptive, right? I’m very sensitive to other people and that’s, it’s been an amazing attribute for me, you know, that I’ve used in work and I’ve used in life.
And so, I was able to, because I balanced and cleared out those old wounds and healed, sort of healed them, self-healing, I had a new perspective on those things that I didn’t like about. And yeah, I did it for almost like a month, which is probably a little crazy. I was actually on medical disability at that time and on long-term disability for the better part of a year. So, I figured, hey, what better time to work on these emotional scars? And it was amazing. After three or so weeks, I started to feel this opening, this clearing of a lot of that old stuff. And also, I felt more connected to my emotions because I really was very disconnected from a lot of emotions because they were not safe for me to feel.
[00:31:58] Cheryl:
It’s so common with childhood trauma. You learn that, especially if you’ve been told, “You’re too emotional, you’re too sensitive,” you just learn to deflect them and deny them and emotions are the enemy.
[00:32:11] Vanessa:
I also started really taking inventory of my energy. You know, I had such a small amount of energy. And so, I started paying attention to what drains me, what fuels me. I became almost like an energy auditor. And it was really the beginning of what led me to this idea of my book, ‘Empowered’, you know, really looking at our energy as such a precious resource that we have and something that we can manage with our thoughts, with, you know, the things that we do, all these different spiritual practices can help us protect our energy and refuel ourselves. So, yeah, it was, it was a really interesting way to discover that, through RA, but it did give me this clarity, I guess, about, you know, how precious our energy is. And when you have so little of it, how important it is to manage it.
[00:33:08] Cheryl:
It sounds like you also took a Stanford class of daily compassion meditation?
[00:33:14] Vanessa:
That happened around the same time as the EFT, which was important. I think I would have struggled to really have self-compassion in doing this had I not had the context of taking this eight week class at Stanford. That really, I think, helped me, helped me be kind to myself when I was experiencing a lot of really hard old feelings, right? Like, because it’s very easy when you’re in, when you’re feeling those hard feelings to be self-critical, and not even realize it, right? Like, I shouldn’t be feeling this, or this feeling is, you know, this feeling is silly, or kind of like, trivializing my, my own feelings, and that gets in the way of me processing them, right? So, the Stanford class, what I really was drawn to about this class versus any of the other ones out there was the science component behind it.
They were backing up all of the work, all of the meditation practices, with research on how, when you practice all of these different meditations over the eight weeks, they gave a promise. They said it will rewire your stress response. And having a disease that’s triggered by stress, I can rewire my stress response and, you know, hopefully that will help keep me in a state of health longer term. So, I was all in and I took that class so seriously. I did all the homework. This class was a life changer. So, I really for almost a year and a half was having interrelated health issues, energy challenges with my energy levels. I was getting really tired at like 3 p.m. There are all of these different factors that I was really just doing my best to move on with my life. But I really didn’t have the same energy level that I had had. So, I really had to make a lot of lifestyle adjustments to get to where I am now. So, I want to say that first because otherwise I’m not really giving a full picture of how I got to where I am now.
So, I moved to doing freelance work which gives me a lot more time to balance my life and my energy and do all of these different kinds of practices every day. I’ve really just become very much an advocate for self-care and wellness and, you know, I literally do daily meditation. I continue to do the compassion meditation every day. I also do chanting every day, which makes a huge difference, mantra-based chanting Which again, also, if you’re not into meditation, it’s a great way to get similar benefits and it’s easier for a lot of people. It’s really relaxing. The other benefit of these, both of these practices, is that they both stimulate this nerve called the vagus nerve. It’s called the wandering nerve and it really connects throughout the body. There are so many studies from all over the world talking about how that when this nerve is stimulated, it naturally decreases inflammation. And we know stress causes inflammation. When I learned that I could, by meditating and by chanting, actually on a daily basis deal with, you know, minimizing my stress levels, it became really exciting because I realized I actually can live a good life with this illness because these tools will help me manage my stress.
Something called VNS, it’s an FDA approved vagus nerve stimulator, it’s a chip that they are, that they are actually, you know, giving people to manage, for example, epilepsy. And they’ve also used it in some cases for Crohn’s disease with a lot of success. Now, it’s not FDA approved for Crohn’s disease. Basically, if you’re not able to respond to the other sort of considered normal lines of treatment for Crohn’s disease, they have tried it and they’ve seen it work. So, this whole thing about the vagus nerve is a serious and important topic that I want people to know about. And particularly if you have emotional issues, and if you have had trauma in the past, you’re gonna have chronic levels of stress for a long time, so having a way to manage that stress ongoing, whether it’s meditation, whether it’s, you know, using mantra-based chanting, these things work.
[00:37:30] Cheryl:
Yeah, and I think it’s just, a lot of it has to do with the delivery. I feel so much compassion for people who initially resist that idea because I know where they’re coming from, because they’re like, “Don’t tell me I’m just stressed because I had these other doctors tell me I’m just stressed.” I didn’t really have an organic disease happening and I actually did. It’s very, you know, it’s like a very tangled thing, but it’s like similar to the example you gave with your current doctor, Dr. Mir. It’s really like about, it’s about the delivery and the connection with a person in the trust you build when you deliver that kind of education dismissive, like, “Oh, just go manage your stress.”
[00:38:08] Vanessa:
No, completely. And that’s a really good point. I think it can come off as minimizing, right? Like, you’re minimizing the severity of it. And our lives are so stressful these days. So, it’s like that, actually, I think the self-compassion class helped me to have more of a sense of compassion to myself, you know, for, wow, what I’m going through is actually really hard. You know, I need to, I need to take care of myself. I need to do these different things that will help me feel just a little bit better. I’m really happy to say that for the last almost two years, I have had my condition in really almost complete remission. It took time, but, you know, I got there. And I am on Cimzia a few times a year, I take it. I really still have a little inflammation in my right hand and a couple of the joints in my two fingers. And I have to manage that.
But really by and large, I have great energy levels. I don’t get tired in the day anymore. I actually don’t get sick that often anymore. I just feel like my overall system is stronger. You know, it’s exciting to say that from going on medical disability to now be living a life where I am setting my own schedule, you know. I work as I can, but I also am taking time, I’m prioritizing, doing things like this that I really believe in. And I think there’s something to that, like, really making room for the things that give you joy. I learned though from the compassion class that finding, they called it just moments of joy, even if they’re small, positive things, and I really have made that part of my life now, like creating moments of joy in my life intentionally.
It has made a difference in terms of how I view my life and really what happened with my health. Like, I don’t see it as a bad thing anymore. I actually see it as a blessing in disguise. Because I think it gave me, it ultimately gave me these tools that I feel like helped me heal, you know. I was, I had to have these issues in my life based on my childhood and you know, then by searching for these different healing tools and I only got, you know, my health under control, but really my life, in a better place. It ended up working out really nicely even though I would have never guessed RA would be a good thing.
[00:40:34] Cheryl:
Yeah, that is so powerful. I just, I’m really inspired, honestly, by that because we all, all of us who have a chronic illness, whether it’s, you know, diabetes or heart and lung disease or autoimmune disease, there’s so many things that you could look at and say, you know, wow, this disease robbed me. You know, I was robbed of the life that I thought I was going to have, but, and there’s a time to process that.
[00:40:58] Vanessa:
I think that’s a really good point because I have not always felt this way. I remember actually, for a moment, so I joined a Buddhist community, really in the very beginning of when I was diagnosed. What ended up being so helpful for me, because many people in the community have overcome all kinds of health issues. And so, there’s this sort of resilient spirit that’s just baked into the community. And that really helped fuel my sense of, I guess, gutsiness in terms of facing this, you know. And so, the thing that I think is really important, you know, I was at this very low moment, actually, at one of the meetings. And I was just holding back the tears because my whole body was in pain and I struggled just to get to the meeting because my whole body was in pain.
There was a woman sitting next to me at the meeting and she could see that I was holding back the tears and she asked me what’s going on. I said, you know, “My whole body is in pain. I’m so afraid.” And she said, you know, it’s possible to overcome this, you know, people in this community have overcome all kinds of things and, you know, you should work with an acupuncturist. She was just very, very optimistic, but with a sense of certainty. And then, one of my friends, I think around that exact time, time told me a quote, and I actually wanted to even read that quote because it was so helpful for me in reframing my mindset. So, it’s, “Happiness is the robust sense of fulfillment one feels when bravely confronting hardship. It is that elevation of the spirit, like an airplane gaining life from the air,” sorry, “Gaining lift from the air resistance against its wings.”
[00:42:38] Cheryl:
Wow.
[00:42:40] Vanessa:
And yeah, then I started to have a shift in my mind of, what if my RA is actually trying to lift me? Like, what if it’s actually just the thing I need to get myself to the next level, get myself unstuck, get myself facing my life bravely. You know, it was quite amazing how that mindset shift, even though I still felt pain, I saw it differently. I didn’t see it as, it was against me. I saw it as, I’m gonna use it for my good. That really was a critical moment in my journey and how I approached it. Now, still, there were so many moments along that path where I was angry as hell. And I think you have to let yourself feel every feeling. It’s so important. In fact, that’s the heart of EFT. So, you know, of course the things I’m saying now are really optimistic because I’ve come, I’ve come so far. But when you are where you are, meet yourself wherever you are with a sense of, if you can, kindness. Like, because the shoulds — I shouldn’t feel this, or this isn’t okay, or I shouldn’t — they cause more pain, right? So, I think that’s one of the biggest things is, wherever you are in the path, and especially in the beginning stages, as much as possible to be kind to where you are.
And I know that’s not easy because this condition is often, I feel trivialized, you know, I feel like a lot of people, because of the name of it, do not recognize how debilitating it is. And how painful it is. And how hard the treatment is because it’s, there’s no one treatment. Everyone is so different. Everyone responds, like you said, so differently to different meds. The whole thing about self-compassion is so important for this illness because what we’re going through is really hard. And there are so many implications in our life that, you know, it affects really everything, right? Our relationships, you know, if we decide to have kids, is it going to affect getting in the way of that? I mean, there’s so many real problems. I think that it’s just so important for people to speak up for where you are. Like, I really struggle to tell people, co-workers, I struggle to tell people limitations. Because I think, you know, because I didn’t look sick, it was very hard for people to understand that I was struggling; how much I was struggling.
[00:45:11] Cheryl:
Well, and I think also because it sounds like from some of your background of not, people not meeting your emotions with compassion, then you’re disincentivized to share any negative experience because you’re afraid that they’re going to treat you poorly based on that. I mean, it’s just a vicious cycle.
[00:45:29] Vanessa:
Completely. And in the workplace, it was also really hard because I didn’t want people to see me as, like, weak or, you know, that there was, that I had this very serious issue that was going to get in the way of my performance. I mean, there is a really a lot of fear and shame around having this in a job that’s so high pressure. And so, it was really hard to reach out and really hard to get the support I needed from my workplace because they didn’t, they didn’t have any way of understanding what I was going through. And I struggled to express what I was going through in any kind of way that they could understand. And one thing that I think is useful, it’s a simple thing that I think has helped, I think, get closer to people understanding what it is I don’t describe it first as I have RA. I describe it as I have a severe autoimmune condition.
[00:46:27] Cheryl:
Oh, my gosh. So in sync. That is what I started saying, too.
[00:46:30] Vanessa:
Yes, because people don’t know RA is an autoimmune condition, and they also often don’t know it’s severe. And then, I go on to give them kind of a public service announcement about what RA is, and I say, you know, RA is your body’s at war with itself. And your body is attacking all of the tissue in your body, including your joints. And so, then when people hear that, there’s usually a shift where they take a step back and they recognize that this is going to be a serious challenge. I think, helpful to become really an advocate for yourself, you know, you really do, with this illness, have to self-advocate so that people, whether it’s your loved ones or your co-workers, can better understand what you’re going through; and therefore, hopefully, can better support you. Because when people think you look normal and you should be able to come and meet them out for drinks at any time because you’re only twenty something, but you know what it’s gonna do to you the next day, right? And you know that you can’t really do it. And that’s not easy.
[00:47:38] Cheryl:
And it sounded like you were, so you’ve learned how to say ‘No’, and that’s like positively affected your work life and your relationships, and also not being so much of a people pleaser, which that really resonated with me, because it’s interrelated, right. So, you want everyone to like you, you want everyone to be pleased by you constantly, so, and you know that saying ‘No’ might temporarily make someone uncomfortable or not happy. And so, then you push yourself and then you pay the price. Yeah. Sometimes I had to have a little bit of a don’t flatter yourself moment. Like, I’d be so afraid that if I said no, then someone would be upset or like not have as much fun at the party without me. And then, they’re like, it’s fine. We’re fine.
[00:48:15] Vanessa:
Yeah. Yeah. It’s just such a shift in behavior that I had to make and it felt really unnatural. That was really — even though to your point, like, life will certainly go on without me going to X-Y-Z event. But saying ‘No’ felt so counterintuitive, so hard, and yet I really attribute a lot of my, you know, success with, you know, really getting my health in a good place the last couple years as me learning these really important life skills, like, you know, we don’t have infinite energy, whether you have a health issue or not. Learning to say ‘No’ and to take care of yourself is so, so important in terms of staying healthy and acknowledging limitations was actually the first step.
Acknowledging that I, that I can’t do what I did before. You know, sort of my own, okay, this is true because I tried doing these things and then the next day I paid the price, like you said. And then, and then being able to articulate it to people and to be able to articulate it with a sense of assertion that I actually have to do this. This isn’t, “Oh, sorry, you know, I don’t think I can.” It’s, “Oh no, I definitely can’t.” In work situations, that can be hard, you know, because I really have always seen myself as such a high performer, someone who can do everything. I was sort of an energizer bunny for a long time, and so I self-identified as being someone who could do everything. And so —
[00:49:48] Cheryl:
I’m so similar!
[00:49:49] Vanessa:
Saying ‘No’? Like, what? Like, I don’t have limitations, what are you talking about?
[00:49:55] Cheryl:
Yeah, like, I almost thought I would be the exception to every rule. I’m like, okay, well, yeah, I got this autoimmune disease, but I’m not gonna let it take me down, la la la. And like, I named my blog, which I started my initial blog was called The Enthusiastic Life. I named that in 2010 because I was like that’s something that’s so core to my personality. I know it’s never going to change. I’m always going to be enthusiastic. And it’s been interesting because my disease has gotten a lot more up and down in the last nine years since I named that blog. And there was a couple of times when I was like, I wish I could change the name because I don’t feel enthusiastic right now. Like, that’s not who I mean anymore.
I mean, it’s hard to summarize, but, you know, I’ve been able to get back to that place where it really is the core part of my inborn temperament is just to get, you know, I say ‘Yes’ to things, get excited about things, be enthusiastic, even if I do have to then have boundaries and be able to, I mean, literally you cannot say ‘Yes’ to everything, even if you were 100% able bodied and like didn’t have to sleep. So many RA patients I meet, I don’t know whether it’s like a slump or something, I don’t know if it’s the people that I happen to encounter, but it seems like a lot of the people with RA do have this a little bit of like perfectionistic or like, you know, high performing personality. So, again, maybe that’s related to the stress and that that causes, or it’s just the population that I’ve run into.
[00:51:14] Vanessa:
Yeah, I don’t have a — obviously I don’t have enough data either, but I have to say, I agree with you that I’ve seen some of these personality traits across many people I’ve met with this condition. So, it does give me pause and make me wonder, is there, is this random. A lot of the changes that I ended up making, lifestyle changes, and I even include this as a lifestyle change, you know, the ability to set boundaries. It’s really a lifestyle change. And I think it’s an important topic to talk about because it actually, the mental and the emotional parts of really dealing with this are just as important as whatever treatment plan you’re on, if you really want to maintain your health and your wellbeing. So, I really feel like even though it’s not just, you know, a lot of times we really talk about the treatment plan, but actually having a path that is encompassing, you know, dealing with your emotions, dealing with your mindset, really, I call it more of like a healing path that is critical for maintaining your health.
[00:52:20] Cheryl:
The example I was reflecting on is like when I got diagnosed with gestational diabetes during my pregnancy. There’s definitely a higher level of care in pregnancy, I think, because there’s just so, there’s two people, right? There’s one body and there’s two people in there. So, I was immediately referred to a diabetes counselor and they covered all of that stuff. But I was like, wait a minute, why wasn’t I — oh, they didn’t cover the emotions, but like, why wasn’t, like, shouldn’t everyone who gets a rheumatology diagnosis have, like, a lifestyle counselor or someone that they, you know, occupational therapist or someone to kind of coordinate, like, here’s the breadth of the things that are going to help you, you know?
[00:52:56] Vanessa:
It’s funny you should mention that because I did work for almost a year with an autoimmune health coach. My mom found her because she used to work with her in some other capacity. She was on the board of a school that my mom worked in. And we did the calls through video Skype. She was really helpful. And she was trained through a program called True North that does really, I think, an incredibly comprehensive health coach training. All of the things that she helped me with — mind, body, emotions, physical, you know, getting exercise — it was really every aspect of it and they had a really clear structure. I found it invaluable because it can be so overwhelming having this health issue and having somebody to set sort of small goals with me on a weekly basis made it feel attainable. It made me feel like I could see the wins over time. You know, I could see, oh, wow, my energy levels are getting better. It kept me in a constructive mindset at some really, really rough times.
So, when you have a coach, what they’re really doing is help you become more conscious of the patterns you have that aren’t working. I really like the idea of pain as a messenger because then it makes me dig a little deeper to ask myself — now, this is really a mindfulness practice — you know, what is this messenger trying to tell me? Is this messenger trying to tell me that there’s something that I’m doing that’s not working for me? Is this messenger trying to tell me to say no? What, what is the messenger telling me? There’s one emotion that I’ve had to struggle with the most in this condition, it’s anger and resentment. You know, why is this happening? I really had to, with all the different modalities, learn how to deal with these emotions in a way that they don’t continue to hurt me. I had never been a depressive person and yet I had moments where I went into my, you know, general doctor’s office and I told him, you know, I’m really struggling. And he almost immediately wanted to write me without even questions, “Oh, here you go. Here’s an antidepressant.” And I really resisted that because I felt like what I was feeling was normal for what I was going through.
[00:55:10] Cheryl:
I’ve totally had the same experience with anxiety. I’m like, so how is what I’m experiencing out of proportion to the threat? Because I’m like, the threat is like my body attacking itself. Like, what am I supposed to be feeling in response?
[00:55:23] Vanessa:
Right, exactly. Like, my whole body is in pain. How would you feel? I also want to be clear that I’m not saying that antidepressants are bad. Or if you feel you need them, take them. I’m by no means judging. It was more his response that I didn’t sense that there was even any hesitation about really trying to understand what was I really going through. Was that really the right course of action? Did I really need this? Like, no more questioning was even done before, this was the immediate response. So, I think having emotions, so long as you have the tools to work with them so that they don’t get stuck, that’s really what EFT is. It keeps the emotions moving. It keeps you able to feel those feelings because you’re not, you’re not getting completely stuck in them. You’re able to actually feel them and then let them move.
[00:56:21] Cheryl:
Have you heard of ACT therapy, Acceptance and Commitment Therapy? It’s specific approach where you, like the techniques called diffusion. So, it’s like we feel so attached to our thoughts when we’re having them, right? So, you defuse by being like, for example, for me, I have claustrophobia. And so, I’d be like, my thought that I’m having is, “I’m trapped. I’m trapped. I can’t get out.” And so, the first start by being like, I’m having the thought that I’m trapped. So, that starts by removing you, as you identify that it’s a thought. And then, you can also further diffuse by doing these specific exercises where you like say it in like a funny voice or like you sing it, but what I’ve learned is like anxiety isn’t the problem.
Like, it’s just a thought. It’s a thing in my mind. It’s like, I think for so long I was like, anxiety, it’s like, I’m carrying this thing, I’m carrying this box, and the box is called anxiety. And I’m trying, I have all these different things I’m trying to use to, like, make it go away. I have like a hammer, and I have like, I’m lighting a match, I’m trying to put it on fire. I’m like trying to, like, throw it over into the ocean, like it keeps coming back. And then, finally, I’ll just be like, “You’re just a box,” like you’re just a box that I’m holding. And like, that just has helped me so much, just accepting kind of is a zen based thing where you’re like, life is suffering, like, that’s part of life. And don’t try to, like, force everything to go away that you don’t enjoy feeling.
[00:57:38] Vanessa:
Yeah. That is something that I feel like took me the longest to really understand that acceptance doesn’t mean resignation. Similar to you, I stumbled on a mindfulness practice from Tara Brach, who’s a meditation teacher at the Insight Meditation Center. She has a podcast that is wonderful, and her RAIN meditation, it’s an acronym. It really walks you through that exact process of whatever emotional state you’re feeling that’s causing you a sense of anxiety, you recognize. And you actually even name, if you can, like what you’re feeling that you’re sort of, you know, the labeling it and sort of therefore separating yourself from the experience that you’re experiencing. And then, the second is allow, which is the most counterintuitive of all of them. Because again, when we have something that’s, quote, ‘negative’, like you said, we want to jack hammer it out. We want to do whatever we can to remove it. And yet, that very mentality makes it worse.
[00:58:45] Cheryl:
“Can’t accept that. No, no, no. I just haven’t found the right tool yet. I haven’t found the right tool to throw away.”
[00:58:49] Vanessa:
And by allowing it, and even just 30 seconds, even if you just count to 30, just, this is here. I don’t want to fake it. Okay. [Laughs] And, and, you know, letting it be there. And it’s amazing. It really works every time that them, all emotions really move through our system within, like, 90 seconds. And so, when they’re allowed to move they do. And so, the practice allows that the feelings to move and then also lets you use them as a messenger, so okay, allow — now I, as investigator, like what is what is this message from?
[00:59:30] Cheryl:
Oh, I’ve heard this before. Yeah.
[00:59:33] Vanessa:
Yeah. And then, you know. Is there, what does this remind me of? Does this remind me of something I’ve experienced in the past? These sensations, this story, if there’s like a story, like you said, I’m repeating. You know, what does this remind me of? And, for me, there’s almost always an early memory of something that was really hard that it reminds me of. And then, as soon as I connect the dots, I’m able to be kind to myself. Because I realize, okay, even though the trigger was probably super stupid, there’s some deeper part of me that’s It’s trying to resolve this. And this scene really is a little notification from the deeper part of me that’s saying, “I need your help.”
And so, the investigation then leads naturally to the nurture, which is give myself what I really need. You know, maybe I really need to, to be more patient with myself in this situation. Maybe, you know, there’s any number of things. I actually will make a list of this sometimes in a little journal. But ‘I feel, I want, I need’, which is a simple way of doing it, you know, like, if you’re having really hard, anxious thoughts, you know, write them down, because even just naming emotions actually decreases stress by like 50%. Just naming them. Thich Naht Hanh, a Tibetan Buddhist, explained it to me in a way that helps me get it, which is if your baby was crying, you wouldn’t just tell it to shut up, right? You would say, you would, you would tend to it, right? You would be nurturing to it to try to kind of comfort it. And yet that’s exactly what we do to ourselves when we’re in pain.
When we’re crying, which is we’re anxious, we’re basically saying, “Shut up, shut up.” And it just gets worse. Because really, the desire is for tenderness, and acceptance, and understanding. I mean, that’s all that we really want in our relationships, right? If we’re suffering, is for someone to mirror that back to us. And yet, to do it for ourselves is a real practice. So, yeah, that is such a wonderful reminder in terms of why it works. I really just want people to have access to all of these different things. Like you said, it’s so helpful to know that there’s things out there that are there to support you. So, there’s that. And then, you know, if you want to learn more about any of the things, you know, I do teach EFT. I have some online things that I do and group settings and then also one-on-one. But yeah, stay in touch. You know, I am really passionate about. Helping share resources. So, I would love to stay connected with you. And if there’s any way I can support you, just let me know.
[01:02:10] Cheryl:
Thank you so much.
[01:02:10] Vanessa:
It’s a pleasure talking to you about this. It’s something I’ve been wanting to share a long time and I wasn’t really ready to be honest, to share it until now.
[01:02:20] Cheryl:
You know, and I, my RA journey, I have always felt comfortable sharing for whatever reason, but my anxiety journey, I really have only felt uncomfortable sharing. I felt, like it was a weakness. Like, I should have, I should have been able to take my anxiety. I should have conquered it. I’m like the one of the very few people who could say this because, but because my childhood was so idyllic, and I felt like I didn’t have an excuse. I didn’t have any trauma. Why should I feel anxious? I should be fine. And so, I had to really get over that. And so, yeah, I did not want to ever admit that I had felt anxiety, that I had been claustrophobic, and had to go to a lot of therapy for that. Like, I know I can identify with the process of like, okay, I’m not ready to share this yet.
[01:03:04] Vanessa:
You know, it was hard for me to see that similar to you that people would see me as strong by sharing my weaknesses. Like, there was just something about that, that felt counterintuitive to me. And I’ve had to do a lot to overcome this. And this is really just the beginning of me working on, you know, willing, being willing to open up. So, you know, you’re really the perfect person to open up to because you’ve been through this. And it’s really much easier to talk to you about it because I can’t be judged by someone who’s been through the same thing, right? Like, I can’t.
[01:03:36] Cheryl:
No, and it’s just, it’s just amazing how we all just kind of feel like everyone else has it figured out. If I just like listen to how you talk about things are so eloquent. And like, if I didn’t know what you’ve been through, if we were just talking just about, you know, like EFT, if we just had you at that, I had no idea what your story is. I’m like, this person, she just got everything figured out and I’m, why do I not have everything? It’s like, why are we so hard on ourselves, you know? And why do we assume everyone else has it all figured out and we don’t? We’re, it’s, we’re all works in progress.
I just want to thank Vanessa again for her honesty and openness in sharing her story with this audience. It’s never easy digging up into painful memories from the past and I am so honored she chose to share her story on this platform. So, thank you again, Vanessa. And to all the listeners, don’t forget to check out how to follow Vanessa in the show notes and also how to stay connected with me.
Thank you so much for listening to today’s episode. Don’t forget to check out my latest courses and resources on myarthritislife.net. This podcast is brought to you by the Beginner’s Guide to Life with Rheumatoid Arthritis, a four week online education and support program that I created from scratch to help people with inflammatory arthritis learn everything they need to know to navigate the social, emotional, physical, and logistical challenges of rheumatoid arthritis and related diseases. The next group is going to start in August 2020. Learn more at myarthritislife.net or bit.ly/arthritiscourse, all in lowercase. You can also connect with me on my social media accounts, on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and even TikTok. Check out the links in the show notes.
Thank you so much for listening to another episode of the Arthritis Life Podcast. This episode is brought to you by Rheum to THRIVE, an educational program I created from scratch to help you go from overwhelmed to confident, supported, and connected in a matter of weeks. You can go through the pre-recorded course on your own, or you can take the course along with a support group. Learn more at the link in my show notes, or you can always go to www.myarthritislife.net. And if you like this podcast. I would be so honored if you took the time to rate and review it. I also encourage you to share it with anyone you know who might benefit from it. I also wanted to remind you that you can find full transcripts, videos, and detailed show notes with hyperlinks for each episode on my website, www.myarthritislife.net. If you have any ideas for future episodes, or if you want to share your story or wisdom on the podcast, just shoot me an email at info@myarthritislife.net. I can’t wait to hear from you.
