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Podcast

Parenting, Faith and Respecting Different Treatment Choices: Conversation with The Rheumatoid Arthritis Mama Renee Anderson

May 4, 2021
50 min read
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On Episode 33 of the Arthritis Life Podcast, Renee Anderson shares her experience parenting and homeschooling three children while managing rheumatoid arthritis. She also shares how her faith gives her hope during challenging times. Cheryl and Renee have an honest discussion about the importance of respecting different treatment choices in the chronic illness community.

Episode at a glance:

  • Renee’s diagnosis journey after a decade of mystery symptoms
  • How rheumatoid arthritis has affected Renee’s parenting and homeschooling
  • Renee’s Christian faith helps her cope with challenging times
  • Cheryl and Renee share their different treatment choices (western medicine and natural only approaches) and how important it is to respect each other despite different choices
  • How Renee adopts an anti-inflammatory lifestyle
  • The dark side of focusing on wellness and diet: Renee shares about orthorexia, an unhealthy obsession with healthy food
  • Why Renee started her Rheumatoid Arthritis Mamas Sisterhood Facebook group

Speaker Bios:

Renee is a former middle school teacher turned homeschooling mom of three. She’s been married for 17 years and lives in West Michigan. She started The Rheumatoid Arthritis Mama after her RA diagnosis in late 2017 when she began sharing her journey, faith, and experiences with RA openly and authentically on Instagram and Facebook. 

Since then, Renee has been interviewed by and featured in media outlets such as Healthline, Health Central, CreakyJoints, WEGO Health, Self Magazine, and more. Her Facebook support group, The Rheumatoid Arthritis Mamas Sisterhood, has nearly 2,000 members and she uses the group as a space for all women to come together regardless of their treatment choices to support one another, share their experiences, and connect with other autoimmune disease warriors. Renee has a passion to support and encourage other women (especially moms) who are battling autoimmune diseases. Her goal is to provide others with encouragement and hope, feel less alone, and inspire them to live their best lives despite battling autoimmune disease. Her newest endeavor, a podcast called Every Day with Autoimmune, is set to launch during the summer of 2021!

Cheryl Crow is an occupational therapist who has lived with rheumatoid arthritis for eighteen years. Her life passion is helping others with rheumatoid arthritis figure out how to live a full life despite arthritis, by developing tools to navigate physical, emotional and social challenges. She formed the educational company Arthritis Life in 2019 after seeing a huge need for more engaging, accessible, and (dare I say) FUN patient education and self-management resources.

This episode is brought to you by the Rheumatoid Arthritis Roadmap, an self-paced online course Cheryl created that teaches people with RA how to confidently manage their physical, social and emotional life with this condition.

Copy of Episode Renee

Here’s the detailed show breakdown:

2:14 – Renee’s journey getting her RA diagnosis after a decade of mystery symptoms. 

5:23 – Renee has mixed emotions after her diagnosis: fear and confusion, mixed with relief that she finally had a definitive answer. 

6:45: Discussion about how common it is for people with autoimmune symptoms to be dismissed by medical professionals.

8:30 – How Renee’s three children have become more compassionate and sensitive as a result of mommy’s rheumatoid arthritis. How she initially tried to hide her diagnosis from them, and how she then realized she needed to be open with her children and husband.  

13:15 – Renee opens up about her infertility journey and what she learned about communication, stress management and how to relinquish control.

15:40 – How Renee structures her daily routine to suit her RA needs and her family’s needs.

18:10  – How Renee’s Christian faith and eternal perspective helps her cope with RA.

20:00 – Cheryl reflects on how, despite being an agnostic / atheist now, she carries forward lessons she learned as a child about the importance of unconditional love and the idea that everyone is worthy even if they have a health challenge.

21:55 – Cheryl & Renee discuss how different people have different treatment paths and the divides within the RA community at times between a “natural” and a “western medication” approach. How Renee explored lifestyle and diet and worked with a functional medicine doctor. 

26:35 – While Renee is able to control her RA with lifestyle and diet, she will never fault or judge anyone for taking medication.

27:35 – Cheryl’s perspective as someone on three RA medications. The importance of differentiating as patients between sharing our experiences and then making the leap that *because* it worked for me, it 100% will work for you. Important to remember the current scientific evidence at the population level favors an early aggressive medication approach. 

29:20 – How Renee’ focuses on an overall anti inflammatory lifestyle; an integrative approach – not “either/or” but “both.” 

30:00 – How Renee’s experience with unkindness and negativity in Facebook groups inspired her to start her own group: the Rheumatoid Arthritis Mamas Sisterhood.

34:05 – The dark side to obsessing over “healthy food,” you can become orthorexic – obsessive with eating only healthy or “clean” foods.

36:35 – Patients are the expert on our own patient journeys but that doesn’t mean that we know what will work for another patient. 

37:10  Renee shares the foods that trigger *her* inflammation. 

38:45 – How Renee healed herself from her negative emotions around food and has built a healthy relationship with food through Elizabeth Dahl, a food coach. How to learn food is not the enemy. Learning to be careful about what she eats without being militant has helped her.

43:35 – Discussion of disease-specific Facebook groups, how it’s important to have a place to vent sometimes but it’s also important to find groups that suit your needs, and if you’d like a more supportive and positive place there are groups for that too.

47:25 – Concluding thoughts.

Full Transcript:

[00:00:00] Cheryl: 
[Introductory note]  

Hi there! I’m so excited to welcome you to The Arthritis Life podcast where we share arthritis life stories and tips for thriving with autoimmune arthritis. My name is Cheryl Crow and I am passionate about helping people navigate real life with arthritis beyond joint pain. I’ve been living with rheumatoid arthritis for 20 years and I’m also a mom, occupational therapist, video creator, support group leader, and I created the Rheum to THRIVE self-management program. 

I am so excited to help you live a more empowered life with arthritis. We’re going to cover everything from kitchen life hacks, to navigating the healthcare system, to coping with friends who just don’t get it. Seriously, no topic is going to be off limits on this podcast. My interviewees and I share our honest stories of how chronic illness affects our lives. This includes discussions about mental health, sex, shame, pregnancy, body image, advocacy, self-acceptance, and so much more. You’ll hear stories from all ends of the spectrum from a person who’s living in medicated remission from psoriatic arthritis to somebody living with severe mobility restrictions and severe pain from rheumatoid arthritis. 

You’ll hear how people manage their conditions in different ways like medications, mindfulness, movement, social support, work accommodations, and so much more. You’ll also hear from rheumatology experts who just get it. We’ll dive deep into the science behind chronic pain and what’s the latest evidence for lifestyle changes that can help you thrive with arthritis, including exercise, sleep, nutrition, stress reduction, and more. This is your chance to sit down and chat with a friend who’s been there. Ready to figure out how to manage your arthritis life? Let’s get started.     

This episode is brought to you by Rheum to THRIVE, a brand new support and membership community that I created in order to help people build a life they love despite rheumatic disease. I’ll be teaching you how to develop your own THRIVE toolkit, which is the exact process I use to live a full life despite rheumatoid arthritis. Check out the show notes to learn more. 

Hi, my name is Cheryl Crow, and I am passionate about helping people navigate real life with arthritis. I’ve lived with rheumatoid arthritis for 17 years, and I’m also a mom, teacher, and occupational therapist. I’m so excited to share my tricks for managing the ups and downs of life with arthritis. Everything from kitchen life hacks to how to respond when people say, “You don’t look sick.” Stress, work, sex, anxiety, fatigue, pregnancy, and parenting with chronic illness – no topic will be off limits here. I’ll also talk to other patients and share their stories and advice. Think of this as your chance to sit down and chat with a friend who’s been there. Ready to figure out how to manage your arthritis life? Let’s get started. 

Hi, Renee! Welcome to the Arthritis Life Podcast. 

[00:02:42] Renee: 
Thank you for having me, Cheryl. 

[00:02:44] Cheryl: 
So, can you start off by just telling the audience a little bit about yourself and your relationship to arthritis?

[00:02:50] Renee: 
Sure. So, I’m Renee. I am married for — I’ve been married for 17 years to my husband. We have three kiddos, ages 10, 8, and 6. We live in West Michigan. love going to the beach on a regular basis. And yeah, I was diagnosed with RA in late 2017, and right after my diagnosis, I started my Instagram account, the Rheumatoid Arthritis Mama. And it’s just grown into what it is today and that’s how we met. I actually love the fact that we connected through Instagram. The reason that I found you was because of your super fun reels and your awesome smile and your positivity, and just your way to educate people and make them smile at the same time. 

[00:03:44] Cheryl:
That’s so sweet. Thank you so much. Yeah. I’m so excited to have you on here and I love that social media has connected so many of us with these diseases. It wasn’t around when I got diagnosed in 2003, so I feel lucky that it’s here now. 

[00:03:58] Renee: 
Yeah. I’m just super excited to be here and chat today. My diagnosis story, my official diagnosis was in 2017, but I had been experiencing a lot of mystery symptoms for over a decade that went undiagnosed. And I know that’s pretty common with people with autoimmune diseases. It kind of snowballs in a way, where it starts out as little things and that gets bigger and bigger until you finally can get to that definitive diagnosis. And that was definitely me. 

I had experienced things starting all the way back when I was a teenager, and then I was officially diagnosed when I was 37. So, it’s just been over three years since my diagnosis. And my RA, my actual RA symptoms happened after the birth of my first child. He’s now gonna be 10 next month. And it just started with some wrist pain, you know, which is pretty typical. I went to the doctor after he was about 6-months-old and I was like, this is really hurting me. And my doctor said, well, it’s probably De Quervain’s syndrome, which is like new mom’s wrist. And they said, “We can’t do anything for you. We can give you a little steroid shot, but that’s all we can do.” So, have a nice life. 

And then, after that, it was just, this progression of joint pain and with every pregnancy the joint pain got worse and worse. And then, after I finished breastfeeding my third daughter and she turned two, then it was like in heightened mode. And then, I got diagnosed that fall. So, it really was for me very, I think, the hormones of having three babies in four years was definitely a factor that kind of threw my body into the major flare that finally ended with my diagnosis.  

[00:05:51] Cheryl:
So, I’m curious how emotionally, what was your response when you got your diagnosis? 

[00:05:59] Renee: 
Yeah, so when I was first diagnosed, ’cause my husband was really the one that was pushing me for the diagnosis, because I was getting to the point where I couldn’t buckle my kids into their car seats. I couldn’t zip up their zippers. I couldn’t button their buttons. We were living in a home with hardwood hickory floors at the time, and I could not put my bare feet on the floor without excruciating pain. And I was almost bedridden to the point where my husband was having to stay home from work and work from home more and help me take care of the kids, help me get dressed, help me do all these things that for a long time I had taken for granted. 

And so, for me, it was him really pushing me toward that diagnosis. And then, first I went to my primary care physician and they did some blood work. And then, I also started seeing a functional medicine doctor at the same time. So, and they were the one that said, you have something autoimmune going on. I can’t tell you exactly what it is, but you should probably get this checked out. And that’s ended up being the RA. And so, my initial reaction to it was I was really fearful. I was really scared. I didn’t know anyone outside the geriatric community that had rheumatoid arthritis. I had a grandmother that I, you know, from my youth, that had really crippled up fingers from arthritis. And that was really my only experience with arthritis, was my little Romanian grandma with her crippled fingers. And I was like, is that gonna be me? I have a brand new family and I’m young. And this is totally out of my repertoire of understanding. 

And so, I was really scared. I was also relieved though too, and I’m sure you’ve talked to people with that experience that after a decade of not knowing what was wrong with me, I finally had a definitive answer. And I had dealt with years of other issues. I dealt with insulin resistance and polycystic ovarian syndrome, infertility. I had my gallbladder removed. I had all these things. So, it was like finally this progression up to this diagnosis, and it was really scary. I was like, am I gonna die? Is this gonna, is this — is this a death sentence? That was a big, that was a big thing for me. 

[00:08:28] Cheryl:
That mixture of emotions you described is so common, because on the one hand, so many of us have been told by various medical professionals, like you were when your first child was 6-months-old, “Oh, it’s just this, it’s just that.” Even younger than us people get told, “Oh, it’s just growing pains. Your knee hurts ’cause it’s growing pains,” or, and again, hindsight’s 20/20. It’s not to say that every doctor like a hundred percent should have known, but there’s a feeling a lot of times with autoimmune diseases that we get dismissed. And especially women, like I was told, “You’re just anxious. You’re just anxious.” 

[00:09:03] Renee: 
Yeah. I was put on, I was told I had anxiety and depression. And same thing. I mean I was in and outta specialists for over a decade, Cheryl, and it was very exhausting. But you know your body and you know when there’s something wrong and just off.

[00:09:19] Cheryl:
Yeah. Well, I’m so glad you got that diagnosis and yeah, I think I’m always like relating things back to occupational therapy. I just have to say too, that we really, as occupational therapists, have to do a better job promoting our profession to primary care doctors and others because like with De Quervain’s, there are things you could do, like you could have gotten a referral to a certified hand therapist to get a splint. Or you could have gotten like three or four sessions of occupational therapy to specifically walk you through a day in your life. How are we gonna get the kid in and out of the car seat? Can we use an adaptive gadget? 

Like, you should not have had to figure that out on your own even without a diagnosis. My heart just goes out to all the undiagnosed people ’cause we know that just as we suffered unnecessarily before our diagnoses, there’s others right now who are suffering too. But I’m sure the audience is gonna want to know a little bit more now about what has your journey parenting three children now while balancing your rheumatoid arthritis?

[00:10:21] Renee: 
Sure. So, yeah, my kids, like I said, my youngest was two when I got my diagnosis, and so my kids have very much grown up with a mom that has been sensitive to pain or they’ve been acutely aware of, “Mommy has arthritis, Mommy’s got RA,” and this word is very, normal to them now. And so, because of that, I feel like they have a sensitivity and more of a compassion toward being a little bit more lenient and understanding like when plans have to change because Mommy’s in a flare or Mommy can’t do that physical thing or can’t take them somewhere because I  need to rest. 

Prioritizing rest is so important for RA patients and it’s come with some disappointments sometimes for them. And when I have to rest, I rest. But when I can play hard, we can play hard. And it’s also helped them to really get an understanding of other people’s — the world is bigger than just what’s inside their bubble, and that’s why I said it, it’s really helped them with that compassion piece. So, for us and our family, that’s been really important. 

And having a supportive husband has been huge in that too. Just saying, “Mommy’s resting, so now you’re, they’re gonna go do something special,” or whatever. But it’s been hard. It’s not easy being able to — it’s hard to let your kids down sometimes, but that’s a reality of it. So, so yeah, that’s where I’m at right now. But in the early stages of it, I feel like for me, I was really trying to hide it from them. I really was. And when I was really in the height of my right before pre-diagnosis, I really was trying to be tough and trying to be prideful in a way, everything’s fine but realizing very soon after my diagnosis that I needed to be open with them and honest with them and with my husband, and share what’s going on. And that has really been good for us as a family too. 

[00:12:43] Cheryl:
That’s so important and that’s definitely a stage a lot of people go through, and I’m sure a lot of people will wonder how did you start those conversations with your children? And did you start, did you talk about it differently to the older one than the younger ones? 

[00:12:58] Renee: 
Yeah, sure. So, I remember when we were, when I was first diagnosed, I sat them down and I said, “Mommy has something called rheumatoid arthritis,” and we practice saying it, rheumatoid arthritis. And I said, “It’s something that Mommy’s gonna have forever and it’s something that Mommy is gonna have to deal with and it causes me a lot of pain. So, wait, sometimes mommy is gonna need help with certain things.” So, and they’ve really stepped up in that regard, having them empowering them in a way to say, “I’m doing this for mom because she needs some extra help here and there,” whether it’s lifting groceries or opening a can for me, or so simple things. So, yeah, we talked about it. We talked about it as a family. We had a family meeting about it. And they were pretty young at the time, but they took it well and it’s just been kind of part of their life.

[00:13:58] Cheryl:
Oh, that’s wonderful. And I think children often want to help. And I know you have a background as a teacher, so tell me if I’m wrong, but the younger ones, the classic thing is, “I’ll do it myself.” Like, they don’t wanna accept help sometimes from us, and then they feel kind of, like you said, empowered if they can help as well. Yeah. But as the parent, it can feel a little bit, like you said, disappointing or awkward to be like, wait, I’m the mom, I’m supposed to help my child, not the other way around. But, once you can get to that acceptance piece, then it becomes a lot easier.  

[00:14:33] Renee: 
Yeah. There’s very much an emotional — is it the 12 stages of grief or whatever? Whatever they say. There’s stages of grief and acceptance. When you get a diagnosis like this, there really is, there’s these levels of emotions that you have to allow yourself to pass through in order to get to the point where everything’s gonna, you’re gonna be okay, regardless of how you’re choosing to manage your disease.

[00:15:01] Cheryl:
Yeah, absolutely. And do you have any just advice to people who, young people who have rheumatoid arthritis maybe who either don’t have children yet and want to have children but are like a little fearful about that, or people who already have children and are just struggling managing? Those are two different questions.

[00:15:22] Renee: 
So, I had, because I didn’t get my diagnosis until after I had kids, I have a little bit of a different perspective, I guess. I did have infertility issues, significant infertility issues before I had my first though. So, I understand that emotional rollercoaster that comes with wanting to be pregnant so desperately and then not having it happen, or all the nuances that come with that. And, but I would say, I think, stress is a huge factor with wanting to be pregnant and allowing yourself to really believe that it’s gonna happen when it’s supposed to happen, if it will, if it’s gonna happen. I had to really release control of that in a way ’cause you can do all the things, you can — I charted my basal body temperature for a year and a half, every single morning for a year and a half, wanting to get pregnant and doing all the things and meeting with the infertility doctors. And so, I get it. I understand that. And it can be really hard. 

And so, I just wanna acknowledge the difficulty in that. And I wanna tell you that whatever emotions you’re feeling, whether it’s you’re trying to get pregnant right now, or you’vee suffered miscarriages because I’ve been through that as well, that it is so important, number one, to communicate with your partner because I, through that experience, I was holding some stuff back and that really did affect our relationship and his understanding of what I needed at the time. So, I can’t really speak to as far as what you should do to get your body ready with autoimmune illness, because I was diagnosed after. Now I definitely had things leading up to that though, that affected my fertility and whatnot. 

But in terms of moms, of young kids, I could definitely speak into that because after my diagnosis, I mean, our life really had to change some. We had to slow down, life had to slow down a little bit. And that was really something that my kids brought along through that process. And so, for me, now, because RA has certain elements to it that kind of affect the cadence of our days. And so, like morning stiffness is a factor. And kids, they’re bright-eyed and bushy tailed right away in the morning. And so, for us, we’ve had to modify our schedule a little bit. So, my kids know that, like, they have a morning routine where they get up and they’re self-sufficient in the morning, and I tend to wake up after them. And so, they do their first breakfast and then we do second breakfast where I can make them their pancakes and their sausage and all this stuff that they want. 

And so, and then we homeschool, so we actually don’t do any school, any formal school until the afternoon because then I’m able to wake up and get around and get my body moving and do all of my self-care practices that I need to do to be successful in my days, get my stuff done, and then we can, and then I’m ready to tackle what I need to tackle with them homeschool wise. And that has really worked out well for us. And that’s just the cadence of our family. So, maybe the cadence of your family just has to change. You really just need to hone into that and figure out what works for you. Obviously, we have a different situation because I do homeschool, so because of that our schedule is more lenient and more flexible, which I need. And so, that’s just how it’s worked out for us. 

[00:19:10] Cheryl:
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. It’s a great example of scheduling it to the best of your ability, scheduling your daily routines around your symptoms and your own rhythms. So, I think that’s, I think that’s wonderful. 

[Intermission begins]
Hi, everyone! I’m interrupting really quickly to remind you that this podcast is brought to you by the Rheumatoid Arthritis Roadmap. It’s a comprehensive online education and support program that I created from scratch to help people learn how to live a full life despite rheumatoid arthritis. In the course you get to learn how to manage everything from physical symptoms like pain and fatigue, to social and emotional aspects of living with rheumatoid arthritis. I even cover the logistics of things like how to track symptoms and how to advocate for yourself in medical appointments. To learn more, go to myarthritislife.net. 
[Intermission ends]

So, Renee, I’ve heard you speak in the past about how your Christianity and your faith has helped you on your journey with rheumatoid arthritis, and I would love to give you a chance to, share with the audience a little about that.

[00:20:16] Renee: 
Absolutely. Well, thank you for giving me that opportunity, Cheryl. I really appreciate that. Yeah, as for anyone that follows me on Instagram, they know that I’m very open with my faith. It is an integral part of my life, and that is absolutely true, going right into my RA diagnosis, I tend to see the world through that lens. And I honestly really do depend on my faith for every aspect of my life. And so, that same thing rung true with my RA. And so, I just, I have a lot of scriptures that I use in my Bible to refer back to when I need it, when I need that reminder of the hope that I have in Jesus and the fact that I’m not living just for this life, but another one as well for an eternal life. 

And so, for me, I like to remind myself of that on a regular basis, because there is this kind of, there’s a sadness with this disease, or with any disease really. And so, that kind of keeps my, that kind of keeps me feeling hopeful, feeling gratitude that there are plenty of other people in this world that have it way worse than I do. And that I can still live a wonderful full life and still have joy, and still have gratitude, and still have peace, and draw my strength from that. And so, yeah, that’s absolutely a vital for me. And I honestly, I don’t know how I would navigate this disease without my faith.

[00:21:54] Cheryl:
Yeah, and I just, I can’t believe it hasn’t come up in the podcast yet. We’re on Episode 33 and this is the first time, but I know so many people use — I don’t wanna say, I shouldn’t say use their faith, but they find that hope and encouragement in their faith. And actually, I’m personally more on the agnostic slash atheist side of things, but I grew up non-denominational Christian, and I think that one of the things that did resonate with me about that, that I’ve carried through now, is the idea of unconditional love and that everyone is worthy of unconditional love, regardless of your disability, regardless of your race or anything, you know, that we all deserve unconditional love, and I think that you seeing yourself as a whole person worthy of love, rather than, ‘Oh, I’m broken because of my rheumatoid arthritis’. 

[00:22:50] Renee: 
On the days that I feel like I can’t get outta bed or I feel that dread, I can pull up those certain scriptures that I have that just give me that shot in the arm that tell me I’m gonna be okay, everything’s all right, and let’s do this. And so, that really helps me. So, that’s just something that, it was a very natural thing for me to look to God for my strength when it came to getting diagnosed in 2017. 

[00:23:22] Cheryl:
Is there anything else you wanted say about your faith while we’re on that topic? 

[00:23:26] Renee: 
No. Other than, you know, for the people that might not be feeling very hopeful, that there can be hope that you can find. So, there is always hope. 

[00:23:38] Cheryl:
Yeah, I love that. And another kind of, I guess I would say hot button issue potentially that I know you and I have talked about before is just like with religion, people can find comfort and hope in different paths. Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Christianity. We also have different treatment paths that people feel very passionate about that. I loved a post that you had, and I’ll link to this in the show notes, a post where you said, “If you use medication and it works for you, good for you, that you know you deserve respect. If you use a blend of Western and alternative or integrative approaches, good for you. If you don’t use medication and you do, a natural approach, good for you. We can support and respect everyone.” So, I would love to give you a chance to share a little bit. What inspired that post? 

[00:24:33] Renee: 
Well, soon after my diagnosis, I started jumping into Facebook groups for RA, whether it was, just female only, or everyone. And I, started exploring, like, what are people with RA doing? And so, for me. I decided right away not to — because I was told by my doctor, by my rheumatologist, “We need to start you on an aggressive medication regimen right away, and if we don’t, there’s no cure and you’re gonna be deformed really quickly and there’s no hope for you unless you start medication.” And there was just something inside me that said that I need to put a pause on that for now, and I wanna try to exhaust all of my natural options first before going on the medication route. 

And that was just for me. I grew up in a very natural, crunchy, healthy, green, organic, everything made from scratch home. And it was just ingrained in my brain from a very young age. And so, for me, I started exploring diet and lifestyle changes from the get go, and I was working with my functional medicine doctor in exploring my root causes and figuring some of that out. And so, I wanted to focus on getting down to the root of why, what was causing my RA. And so, that’s when I started with diet change and things like that. But there can be another side to that coin as well, because I almost developed a fear of food because I did do an elimination diet and I did discover some of my food triggers, and because of that I almost became so fearful of food that I almost started developing some orthorexic tendencies. 

And so, that’s one side of the thing of the coin that really made me not be leery of certain diets and fads, but in a way you have to make sure that you are doing it in a smart way. I guess you can’t just say, “Well, I’m gonna go all in this diet and then not be under any guidance or direction.” I always talk about having a well-rounded healthcare team, and for me, that’s my primary care physician, that’s my rheumatologist, that’s my functional medicine doctor. That’s a variety of people in my life that are helping me make these decisions. It’s not just me, it’s a shared decision making process. 

And so, going back to that, I decided not to do medication and focus on my root causes. And also I was able to feel the effects of that right away. Since my diagnosis, I’ve decided not to take any RA medication, and the life I have now is significantly different and more improved from the life that I had pre-diagnosis. So, there is something to be said about diet and nutrition and lifestyle changes and focusing on those root causes, and I’m living proof of that really. Now, that being said though, everyone’s got their differing forms of severity and there are some people that absolutely need to go on medication right away. And I will never, ever fault anyone for having to go that route right away, because for them it might be a life or death situation, or it might be where people are like — I get DM’s all the time on Instagram saying, “I tried the diet thing, I tried the lifestyle thing, and I am, it’s like, it’s bad. It’s bad.” 

And so, for those people, absolutely there is a time and a place for medication. And so, I don’t fault them at all for that. And I just think that sometimes there doesn’t have to be an all or nothing mentality. There’s no perfect way to treat this disease. There’s no perfect diet. There’s no one size fits all, perfect plan protocol, anything. There’s, everyone is different. We are all bio-individuals. Our bodies absorb things differently and react differently, and we all have different reasons why this RA happen to us. And so, those are the things that I wanna be respectful about. I want to be reminding people that just because you choose to treat your RA different than me doesn’t mean we can’t coexist, be friends, be kind, be respectful, and we can have a difference of opinions, but still be nice. You know what I’m saying? 

[00:29:12] Cheryl:
Oh, totally. And I think there, there’s a nuance to what you’re saying that I almost think, or that’s just cannot be stressed enough, which is that the black, any black and white statements to say that all patients need to take — like, I’m on three different medications for RA. I feel no shame about that. I feel actually immense gratitude to have those options that weren’t medications that weren’t available 20 or 30 years ago that help slow down my disease. But like I would never say, “Oh, because I’m on three medications and they’re working for me, everyone else needs to be on medications.” Like, it doesn’t make any sense at all. This is my, like you said, individual body and in your case, like, you are proof that some people can manage their rheumatoid arthritis naturally, but that doesn’t mean that everyone can, or that it’s the best medical decision for everyone. 

I think that we need, as patients, it’s really important to differentiate between sharing our experiences and then making the leap that because it worked for me, it a hundred percent will work for you. It’s more like we have to hedge our bets a little bit and say because natural methods worked for me, they might work for you. If your doctor says, “There’s no way the diet will ever help your RA,” that’s too much of a black and white statement too, right. So, I will say, just for the record, because it’s important to me to point to the evidence that the reason that so many rheumatologists suggest early and aggressive medication therapy is that the overall, at like the population level of the population of people with rheumatoid arthritis, numerous studies show that is the most likely, on the population level, to slow down your disease. 

[00:31:04] Renee: 
So, for me, it’s just focusing on an anti-inflammatory lifestyle, whether that’s the food that I’m eating, the products I’m using, or consuming, or my environment that I’m in. I’m trying to lower my toxic load and I’m trying to just be mindful of the things around me that I’m putting on my body, in my body, things like that. And it’s just those little lifestyle changes that can make a big difference, even for people that are on medication. My whole thing is whatever path you choose, it’s not the — there’s no wrong path. And that was really in 2018, I decided to start my own RA support group on Facebook because I was in these groups, Cheryl, and I will tell you the amount of negativity and the amount of just unkind words that were used, it was just, it was really disheartening to me. And I always tell my kids, going back to being a mom, I said, “We can use our words as swords, or we can use our words as gifts.” And it’s something that’s really important that I teach my kids. And it’s also something important that I try to model and live out myself. 

And so, for me, starting this group, The Rheumatoid Arthritis Mama’s Sisterhood on Facebook, it was important for me to set the tone right away to say I don’t care how you’re choosing to medicate, I want you to know that this is a safe place that you can share and that you don’t have to feel judged and that it’s hard, ’cause the more you grow, the more reminders you have to give in groups like this. And so, we’re almost to 2000 people in the group. And it’s just been, it’s been a really good, it’s been really good for me to see that okay, there are, still people wanting to put in the effort to be kind and to not be judgmental. And so, even you and I, Cheryl, right now, I mean we’re on totally opposite ends of the spectrum and here we are having this wonderful conversation and it’s possible. And we’re friends. And it’s a wonderful thing.

[00:33:22] Cheryl:
Totally. And I think, I had Dr. Kara Wada on a couple of episodes ago, and she goes by like The Crunchy Allergist. Yeah. And I love how she says, It’s not an either/or. I wanna focus on an ‘and’ approach, not an ‘either/or’. And so I’ve done a lot of work on sharing my journey feeling not ashamed of being on medication because of some of the, there’s a negativity that can go both ways. There’s the anti-medication people and then there’s the pro-medication. So, I’ll just share my, I share my story and say, like, I don’t feel like I failed to do things naturally because I was put on this medication and ’cause it works for me. 

Again, I feel just, I feel gratitude for it. And I also can do lifestyle things like avoiding triggers for inflammation for me. And it’s all individual, right? Like, gluten, I cut out gluten over a decade ago and it hasn’t made a difference to my sensation of my symptoms for rheumatoid arthritis, but it’s helped my stomach significantly. And so, I feel an overall more comfort in my life because I’m not bloated all the time. Knowing that, okay, there’s choices I can make exercise is a big one for me, for fatigue and pain, it helps so much to get moving and for my emotional wellbeing, thinking that of not an either/or and not an us versus them. 

At the end of the day, I am an extrovert. I love people, right? I love everyone. And so, for me, I’m like, hey, you’re doing well on whatever’s working for you. You’re on vegan and you’re doing amazing, and you don’t take any medications. That’s so — I’m not, that’s amazing. Like, I want people to all feel good and not feel like this disease is taking them down. So, who am I to say, because I’m on medication that everyone else needs to be on medication? No, I just, if you get where you wanna go, which is like a happy full life with rheumatoid arthritis, however you get there, as long as you’re not hurting anyone. That’s amazing, right? 

[00:35:24] Renee: 
Exactly. And I think it’s so important to, acknowledge the fact that we are all individuals, and that’s just the simple truth of it. And there’s certain people that can eat meat and there’s certain people that can’t, you know, and there’s certain people, the food thing is really, is really on the forefront of my mind right now because my body really does ebb and flow based on the foods that I eat. But it can — there’s a dark side to it too, like I mentioned when I was developing those orthorexic tendencies and, you can really develop a fear of food and I was losing a ton of weight and I didn’t have a lot of weight to lose, but I was losing a ton of weight. And so, you can almost, if you’re not under the guidance of certain doctors, then you can really damage yourself further. And everyone is just doing this whole trial and error thing. They’re just trying to figure out what works well for them.

[00:36:26] Cheryl:
Yeah. And I think just for the audience members who might not have heard of orthorexia before, it’s like a relatively newer term. It’s an obsessive pattern with healthy eating, is that’s what I’m finding online. Would you agree with that? 

[00:36:41] Renee: 
Yes, absolutely. So, it’s almost like you become so obsessed with eating healthy, with avoiding certain foods that you’re almost, you can put yourself into a state of nutrient depletion because you’re avoiding certain foods. And so, yeah, it started happening to me because I was too fearful. 

[00:37:00] Cheryl:
It’s so common. I know that I had on the podcast earlier Christina Montoya and Jennifer, who are both registered dieticians, and Kia who’s studying to become a registered dietician. And they both, or all three of them were talking about how it’s a very common stage for people to go through who are trying to manage their autoimmune diseases through diet, because we want something we can control, right? And it feels like it’s out of our control, that our body is just attacking our healthy joints. And so, we learn wait, some of the foods that you’re eating might help you control that inflammation. Some people, it’s a good thing to learn about your own inflammation triggers through food. But then, if you take it to an extreme, like you said, it can become an obsession. And then, of course, obsessions and OCD is an anxiety-based disorder. And anxiety gets your brain and your body into fight-or-flight, which is stress, which is not good for inflammation either, right. 

[00:38:03] Renee: 
Exactly. And keeping a food journal for me is super important, just tracking how I’m feeling with certain foods tracking what makes me feel like junk, what makes me feel good, what gives me energy, what makes my joints hurt. And so, some people can eat whole grains and some people can’t. Some people can eat beans and legumes and certain seeds and nuts, and some people can’t. I always say I am a n expert on my own experience. We are all experts on our own experience, but we cannot, and we do each other a disservice when we project to others. We constantly say, “Well, this worked for me so it’s blanket and gonna work for everybody.” That’s shortsighted in my opinion. 

[00:38:49] Cheryl:
That’s a really beautiful way to put it. I had Julie on last week and she shared a couple of her food triggers. And so, knowing that everyone’s different, I’m sure some people will still want to know, would you mind sharing, what are some of the worst foods for you that you avoid? Or what are some of the best foods that are anti-inflammatory for you? 

[00:39:10] Renee: 
Yeah, sure. So, for me, I actually don’t have a sensitivity to gluten. For me, dairy and sugar, processed foods. And I don’t have a gallbladder either. So, like, overly greasy foods or overly fatty foods, I’ve gotta make sure that I take my digestive enzymes. And that makes me unique because how I digest fats is different than someone else. And so, and I can’t eat like kidney beans. I can eat black beans, but I can’t eat kidney beans like in chili. So, it’s like those little nuances. And if I, yeah, it’s just those certain things, it’s just avoid for me. I do try to avoid gluten for the most part. But if it sneaks in here and there, it’s not like an end game type situation for me. Like, some people, if they have even a little bit, it affects them. But for me, I can get away with that. 

But everything in moderation. I tend to think of life in happy mediums because when we veer one way too far or the other way too far, that’s when the problems arise. And so, for me, I don’t completely avoid gluten, I don’t completely avoid dairy. I don’t completely avoid sugar, Cheryl, and I still eat some processed foods because I wanna live my life and enjoy my life, And so, for me it’s just, it’s a balance. And I wanna, I’ve been doing a lot of work over the last year of healing myself of some of the negative thoughts that I’ve had around food. And it doesn’t have to be an all or nothing for me. Now, some people, they have to avoid everything, all the time. But for me, when we’re at the — we just came back from Florida on a family vacation, and I felt great down there. My body loves the heat and the humidity and it loves the warmer temperatures. And when I’m feeling really good, I can get away with, being a little bit more lenient here and there with food. And so, everybody’s different, but some people have to be super strict and that’s okay too. 

[00:41:20] Cheryl:
How have you come out of the orthorexia? What helped you get a move away from that? Did you read a book or did you go to therapy? How did that work? 

[00:41:31] Renee: 
Actually, I was introduced to an incredible resource. She is like a food freedom coach. Her name’s Elizabeth Dall from A Woman of Wellness. And she would actually probably be someone great to have on the podcast for you because she has actually helped me a lot with creating a healthy relationship with food because I really did have kind of an — I created almost inside of myself an unhealthy relationship with food that it was like, food was out to get me, or food was making me sick. And that is true for a lot of people, and that’s true for me in certain cases. I can’t eat — I don’t just drink a big glass of milk, but if dairy happens to be an ingredient in something, I’m not gonna freak out, or I can have a little bit of sugar, and she helped me to create this healthy relationship with food. I took her course and she has a podcast as well and she’s just been really helpful for me personally in that respect.

[00:42:35] Cheryl:
I’m so glad that resource exists and I will, I’ll put her information in the show note. I think that there definitely can be a kind of perfectionistic streak in the wellness culture, for lack of a better word. This idea that everything that you do has to be perfectly clean and perfectly toxin free. And I’m not gonna say I have to eat only perfect foods and feel really perfect all the time, because perfection doesn’t really exist, right. 

[00:43:04] Renee: 
Exactly. And so, for me, I’ve had to release the chains of food being the enemy, and that for me has been a huge part of also the emotional, the emotional stress of eating because stress is a huge factor when you have autoimmune disease. And I was noticing that food was giving me anxiety. Food was causing fear and stress, and I had to recreate my relationship with food and remind myself that, you know, it doesn’t have to be all or nothing. I can live a full, vibrant, happy, grateful, joyful, peaceful life, and still have a little bit of sugar and have a little bit of dairy once in a while, and everything’s gonna be okay.

[00:43:59] Cheryl:
Yeah. That’s so powerful. I’m so glad you shared that. I know for sure there are multiple people listening and who can just really, really relate to that. So, that’s so helpful. 

[00:44:10] Renee: 
Now, if I eat too much of anything, too much of a good thing is never a good thing. Yeah. So, I can’t sit there and eat an ice cream cone every single day. I can’t eat, I am very careful about what I eat, but I’m not militant about it. And I go out with my girlfriends and I might have a glass of wine, and I might go out and to dinner and I might have something with something on the no-no list. And so, for some people, that’s not okay. I’m not projecting myself onto others, because for some people they have to draw a hard line. I don’t have GI issues other than not having a gallbladder. I have a pretty tough stomach, but that’s not the case for everybody. You just have to, like I said earlier, become an expert on yourself and just do your best. And when you’re talking to other people about their choices, just be kind. And be respectful. 

[00:45:12] Cheryl:
There was like a little saying I saw somewhere that was like, “Good for you, not for me,” kind of thing. Something that might be good for you, it isn’t either isn’t what I’m interested in or isn’t what’s gonna work for me, but I can still be happy for you, right? I can be happy for somebody, even if what they’re experiencing isn’t what helped me. So, yeah, I hear this all the time, that there’s not only a problem in Facebook groups of negativity towards people who choose different paths, but there’s also a lot of fear on the groups. And I think there’s a place, a time and place, and again, I wanna respect everyone’s needs. Some people would just need a safe space to vent and say, “No one in my family understands me.” 

And that might be their reality. They might have an unsupportive spouse or a job that’s not giving them an accommodation, and they shouldn’t have to be like, “Oh, you just need to stop saying that and be positive.” There should be a safe space, but the Facebook groups can become, if you’re not careful, an echo chamber of people just venting and without any productive element to it. And so, there’s a group, and actually I’m having her on, Mariah Leach from Mama’s Facing Forward, which is yeah, she’s awesome too. So, she started — I love her. Yeah. Similar thing. She started a group, just like you, saying, like, and she has one vent thread a week. I’m in her group. And your group, by the way. 

[00:46:37] Renee: 
Yeah. I just found her, I, never knew she existed until just a few months ago. 

[00:46:43] Cheryl: 
She has a thread once a week. It’s called the vent thread. And this is where it’s a conversation. You just get it all out and that thread, and then the rest of the group is about, quote unquote, ‘facing forward’. Or like in your group, it’s about the sisterhood and like that we are all, we can all be united and support each other even if we’re experiencing different things. And it’s just, I’m like literally getting chills just thinking about these, how important these spaces are. And how they can give, like you mentioned hope earlier, to tie that thread back to give people hope. And I hear people tell me a lot, “Oh, I just got my diagnosis and it’s just, it gives me hope to just see someone,” even if I’m just posing a video doing something very random, like I’m dancing and like pointing to a word about, these are like some of my life hacks from rheumatoid arthritis. And I’m thinking, oh, my gosh, who’s gonna watch this? But then people are like, “Oh, it gives me hope to just see you showing that you’re just living your life.” I’m sure you get those messages too, right? 

[00:47:37] Renee: 
Yeah, absolutely. The majority of the people, the majority of the women, ’cause it is a women only group by design, but the majority of the women that are joining are typically ones that are newly diagnosed and just looking for support, looking for encouragement, looking for answers, resources. And absolutely, I remember it’s a scary feeling and it’s unnerving and there’s a lot of emotions and so if I can just help people navigate that a little bit easier in a nonjudgmental safe space, then I wanna do that. Now, I do have to be careful about, if there is, because there’s certain people that can sneak in that can bring things down. And so, I am in there every single day in my group monitoring, and one of my rules is you gotta be kind and encouraging and helpful and uplifting. And if you’re not gonna be that, then you need to find somewhere else to share. So, yeah, I think it’s just, I am very active in the group. I am there just to make sure things stay in line with the original purpose and intent of the group. 

[00:48:44] Cheryl:
If you’re in a Facebook group that you feel doesn’t fit your needs, then look around and try to find there are other options. They’re not all — 

[00:48:52] Renee: 
My group might not be for everybody for that exact reason. Some people, you know, some people need to get through those negative emotions and process those negative emotions or and it’s part of the process and that’s okay. 

[00:49:07] Cheryl:
Yeah. It’s okay. Absolutely. And I wanna just start wrapping up a little bit. Is there anything else that you wanna touch upon or share with the audience that you haven’t had a chance to say yet?

[00:49:17] Renee: 

I think for me, for anyone that might be new to my content or new to who I am, I think I really want people to understand that I am, I just want people to know that I’m a corner of the internet that is a safe place for people to come to if you’re fearful or if you’re scared. I am not a medical doctor, but I love supporting people through the emotional piece of rheumatoid arthritis; whether it’s just needing someone to share, needing a listening ear, needing someone to remind them that everything’s gonna be okay. I’ve been told I’m a good listener. And so, for anyone that, maybe just needs someone to — doesn’t have anyone in their life to share this with because they don’t understand, they can absolutely reach out to me at any time, and I would love to just get in the mud puddle with them. 

And so, I just wanna be available for people in any way that I can, because I remember I started my Instagram account as a journal of sorts when I was first diagnosed because like I said earlier, I didn’t know anyone with RA. And I just, I started a journal and I just started documenting my story. And now it turned into what it turned into. So, instead of me looking for the support, now I’m using what I’ve learned to support others. And I think there’s a beautiful give and take, with, that. And there’s a definite learning curve with it, and I just wanna help in any way I can. And this is one way that I’ve found that I can help people. 

[00:51:01] Cheryl:
That’s wonderful and you are a good listener. Yo might wanna consider having your own podcast someday. So, I’ll have, I might have to follow up with you about that. So, as you mentioned this wonderful community, can you remind the audience where they can find your Facebook group and where they can find you on Instagram? 

[00:51:19] Renee: 
Absolutely. So, you can find me on Instagram at the Rheumatoid Arthritis Mama. And I’m also on Facebook under the same name and my Facebook support group is the Rheumatoid Arthritis Mama’s Sisterhood. And you can just search for it in Facebook, or you can go to the link in my bio on Instagram. 

[00:51:36] Cheryl:
Wonderful. Well, thank you so much. I know with three kids you are very busy, so I really, really appreciate you taking the time today. 

[00:51:44] Renee: 
Absolutely, Cheryl, thank you so much for having me. 

[Ending note]
Thank you so much for listening to another episode of the Arthritis Life Podcast. This episode is brought to you by the Rheumatoid Arthritis Roadmap, an online course that I created from scratch to help people live a full life with rheumatoid arthritis, from social and emotional aspects of coping with rheumatoid arthritis to simple physical strategies you can use every day to manage things like pain and fatigue. You can find out more on my website, myarthritislife.net, where I also have lots of free educational resources, videos, and more.

Thank you so much for listening to another episode of the Arthritis Life podcast. This episode is brought to you by Rheum to THRIVE, an educational program I created from scratch to help you go from overwhelmed to confident, supported, and connected in a matter of weeks. You can go through the prerecorded course on your own, or you can take the course along with a support group. Learn more at the link of my show notes, or you can always go to www.myarthritislife.net. And if you like this podcast, I would be so honored if you took the time to rate and review it. I also encourage you to share it with anyone you know who might benefit from it. 

I also wanted to remind you that you can find full transcripts, videos, and detailed show notes with hyperlinks for each episode on my website, www.myarthritislife.net.If you have any ideas for future episodes or if you wanna share your story or wisdom on the podcast. Just shoot me an email at info@myarthritislife.net. I can’t wait to hear from you.