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Patient Stories, Podcast

Grace’s Rheumatoid Arthritis Story: Arthritis Life Podcast Episode 44

September 8, 2021
37 min read
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Grace shares her rheumatoid arthritis journey, including getting diagnosed at age twenty and her pregnancy remission. She also explains how she has coped with a huge flare-up of her RA postpartum, and how important it has been for her to address her mindset while living with chronic pain.

This conversation originally occurred on Instagram as an “Instagram Live” chat in July 2021. 

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Episode at a glance

  • Grace’s introduction & diagnosis story (3:22 – 9:00)
  • Grace’s experience with pregnancy remission and a postpartum flare up (9:21 – 15:00)
  • What has helped Grace cope mentally and emotionally with chronic pain and stress (15:50 – 32:00)
  • Grace describes her current business coaching work (32:00 – 37:00)

Speaker Bios:

Grace Nelson is a business coach, specializing in supporting women in corporate start their online business from scratch and make their first consistent 1K+ months online without having to leave their 9-5!  She has been “experiencing” Rheumatoid Arthritis over the last 16 years and shares her story about she manages living with an autoimmune condition, running a business and being a first time Mummy to her daughter Eliza-Rae (who is now 1 years old).

Cheryl Crow is an occupational therapist who has lived with rheumatoid arthritis for seventeen years. She’s passionate about helping others with rheumatoid arthritis live a full life, by using effective tools to manage physical, emotional and social challenges. She formed the educational company Arthritis Life in 2019 after seeing a huge need for more engaging, accessible, and (dare she say) FUN patient education and self-management resources.

Episode Sponsor

This episode is brought to you by Rheum to THRIVE, a 6-month education and support program Cheryl created to help people with rheumatic disease go from overwhelmed, confused and alone to confident, supported and connected.  Join the waitlist today for the next group which starts in early October, 2021!

Episode links:

Medical disclaimer: 

All content found on Arthritis Life public channels was created for generalized informational purposes only. The content is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

Full episode transcript:

[Introductory music]

Hi! My name is Cheryl Crow, and I am passionate about helping people navigate real life with arthritis. I’ve lived with rheumatoid arthritis for 17 years and I’m also a mom, teacher, and occupational therapist. I’m so excited to share my tricks for managing the ups and downs of life with arthritis. Everything from kitchen life hacks, and how to respond when people say, “You don’t look sick”, stress, work, sex, anxiety, fatigue, pregnancy, and parenting with chronic illness — no topic will be off limits here. I’ll also talk to other patients and share their stories and advice. Think of this as your chance to sit down and chat with a friend who’s been there. Ready to figure out how to manage your arthritis life? Let’s get started. 

Cheryl:    Hi, Grace! How are you? 

Grace:      I’m good. Thank you, Cheryl. How are you? 

Cheryl:     Good. It’s so, like, it’s so fun to meet someone on social media and then actually get to talk to them live. 

Grace:      I know, I know. Did I hear heatwave? 

Cheryl:     Yes, we’re having a heatwave. I forget what the celsius — I think it’s 34 celsius, is that right? It’s really hot. 

Grace:      Oh, wow. Yeah, I need to be where you are, Cheryl. I think we need to talk, please. 

Cheryl:     Oh, no.  Is it cold in the UK?  

Grace:      It’s a weird kind of miserable day. It’s kind of — I don’t know. It’s a strange one here. It’s kind of muggy. It’s a weird kind of… 

Cheryl:     Oh, yeah. 

Grace:      Yeah. Not enough breeze. It’s just kind of, uh.  

Cheryl:     Yeah. Oh, man. I’m sorry. Yeah, we got so lucky because we had already planned a trip to the Oregon coast, which is where the — near the ocean, so it’s always cooler near, almost always cooler near the ocean. So, yeah. 

Grace:      Yeah. Yeah. That’s right. 

Cheryl:     Yeah. Yay. Do you find like weather changes affect your joints at all?  

Grace:      Oh, it does. It does. I think it’s quite common for many of us RA warriors, to be fair. 

Cheryl:     Yeah. 

Grace:      That, you know, the excruciating, cold months. That’s when it’s — it really gets to us, our joints, etc. The summer months, we’ve got a bit more spring in our step, you know, summer, good vibes. It’s all — I guess it’s all, you know, part of the whole mental, mind — mind and psyche. 

Cheryl:     Yes, exactly. Yeah, it’s so interesting, because I don’t find that the cold makes my joints worse, but the humidity does. So, if it’s like humid and like, I guess it’s the barometric pressure sometimes, if it’s humid that can definitely — like, when I go to Hawaii, my joints are sore usually.  

Grace:      Yeah. I think, yeah, definitely. It’s the two extremes whether it’s really cold or really hot, I find that’s when, yeah, my body just goes into pure pain mode as well. 

Cheryl:     Yeah.  Oh, my gosh. Well, I’m so happy that you’re coming on today. We’re trying something a little different. We’re going to try to use this recording as a podcast as well, which is such a great idea. I’ve never thought of that. So, Grace brought it up. She’s like, “Oh, can we just do a live and then you can put that on the podcast?” I was like, “Yes! Why not?” 

Grace:      I’m just all about repurposing all that good stuff, good content, why not repurpose it?

Cheryl:     Exactly. That’s — I’m trying to do that, work smarter, not harder kind of thing.

Grace:      Yes, exactly that. Exactly that. So many lovely people jumping on. Hello!

Cheryl:     I know! It’s so great. Hi, everyone. And yeah, so, feel free to ask any questions and in the chat, but I think I’ll start by just asking you, you know, can you give a quick introduction to yourself like, and your relationship to arthritis?  

Grace:      Yes, yeah. Yeah. So, I’m Grace Nelson, and I am a business growth coach and I help women in corporate who wants to start an online business whilst in the nine-to-five. So, my rheumatoid arthritis journey started at the age of 20. So, I was just about to go into my final year of university studying law. And you can imagine the final year in university is very tense in terms of all the exams, all the studying, and I just didn’t know what was happening. And I remember I — I thrive in heat; I absolutely love heat. So, I would always have the heaters on even if it is hot, hot sun outside. And I just remember one day just waking up and just from head to toe, head to toe, my whole body was aching. I felt very stiff myself, and I couldn’t move. And it scared the life at me because it just — it just comes suddenly, RA, all the symptoms. So, I didn’t know what was going on and I just felt really weak in myself to the point whereby I couldn’t even hold a cup or a plate. Just everything felt like 10 times the effort to do. 

Cheryl:     Right.

Grace:      And also, I was experiencing a lot of fatigue. So, I just kind of put it down to maybe I’m having the heater on full blast, you know, maybe it’s having an effect to me. So, this continued for a couple of weeks. And it got to the point whereby I was struggling to walk. It’s so much pain to even put my foot flat on the ground, to get to uni, to actually go to class to study. So, I remember sometimes I’ll be coming back-and-forth from my mom’s house, my parents’ house, back-and-forth from uni. So, I went home, and we decided that, you know, it’s probably high time that I actually go and see somebody about this, because I can’t carry on like this. And it was quite worrying, especially how I just kind of deteriorated.

Cheryl:     Right.

Grace:      You know, just suddenly I was okay, and then the next minute, I was in excruciating pain. So, we went to the doctor’s first of all, and we referred to the hospital consultant, did countless tests. I can’t remember the number of tests I did, you know, back-and-forth, back-and-forth. Lots of blood tests. And then it came to the point whereby I remember going in with my mom and sitting down with the doctor consultant. And he said to me, “Grace, it looks like you’ve got rheumatoid arthritis.” And at the time, you know, I — I didn’t know what rheumatoid arthritis was. And I’d always associated arthritis with the elderly, you know, the way it turns the joints and etc. So, you know, you can just imagine, and I was kind of like, what? You know, what is this? So, as he explained about rheumatoid arthritis, and the fact that, at that time, it wasn’t that common in people my age, being only 20, and also the fact that it wasn’t hereditary, even though we know rheumatoid arthritis isn’t hereditary as well. 

Cheryl:     Right.

Grace:      I wasn’t really aware of — at that time, I wasn’t aware of anyone else in my family that had autoimmune conditions. But since then, it seems that so many do. So, it’s like I opened up the portal now that more and more of my family members are coming to me saying, “Oh, Grace, you know, we’ve got rheumatoid arthritis,” I’m like, oh, gosh. Please, no, not another one. So, I — I mean, I was at a point in my life where I didn’t quite know what this would mean for me, but I wasn’t fully taking it on board, what the consultant was saying, because I thought I was a, you know, I was a very active, you know, I used to be a sprint runner; so, short distance sprint runner. 

Cheryl:     Oh, wow. 

Grace:      I used to compete in championships, really active, you know. I was always on the dance floor, just really an active girl. 

Cheryl:     Yes. Yes. 

Grace:      So, for this to happen, it was — it just, it really rocked my world. And I didn’t understand the consequences of what may happen. So, I was put on treatment, you know, I didn’t even understand what the treatment would do for me. Put on a number of treatments and was just trying that, but I’m not good with medication, especially at that time, you know, I hated the whole thought of having to take medication every single day. It just seemed like a real chore. Something that I wouldn’t sign up for. So, I pretended I was taking the medication.  

Cheryl:     Oh, no. I do not recommend that.

Grace:       I know. I know. And I don’t recommend that either. But in my defense, Cheryl, because when I would go back for blood test, the doctors will say to me, “Oh, looks like the level of inflammation is actually decreasing.” I was like, oh, okay. This is good, this is good. But I have to admit, it probably has taken its effect on me now, you know, that those times I pretended I was taking medication, it’s prolonged it.

Cheryl:     It’s hard to know for sure. But, yeah.

Grace:      It’s hard to know, it’s hard to know. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, I think for me, it was — since then, so, I still right now, I have to say that I am suffering from a really severe postpartum flare-up. 

Cheryl:     I’m so sorry. 

Grace:      Yeah, I know. I know. Well, so, my daughter’s gonna be one next month.

Cheryl:     Congrats!

Grace:      And it was just what I — for me, this is my first child, I have to say. So, in all the excitement of having a child, and then during pregnancy, it was happy days for me, Cheryl, because I went into remission. I had a new lease of life during my pregnancy. So, you know, very fit, able to do things and it was a very good pregnancy. And then giving birth, I had a C-section. So, I had a couple of weeks healing from the C section and that was painful in itself, very painful. But I’m so lucky that I’ve got a very supportive hubby. He was just able to help me and care for the little one, etc. But it seems that my rheumatoid arthritis flare-up was actually waiting, that as soon as my C-section and I was healed from that, I just went whoosh into overdrive. Complete flare-up. And I’m still healing from that since. And it’s —

Cheryl:    I’m so sorry.

Grace:      Yeah. Thank you. And I have to say that it hasn’t been easy, especially in the last couple of months. Physically, I have deteriorated more than ever to the point whereby I actually can’t move my shoulders, my arms up. So, I’m very much —  

Cheryl:     That’s so hard! How do you hold your baby? Yeah.

Grace:      Well, this is it. It’s a real struggle. Everything is 10 times the effort, it’s a real struggle. You know, having a baby, that’s your greatest joy, to be able to hold your baby, hug your baby, lift your baby, do all the things. That it’s balancing now the fact that, physically I’m unable to do what most mothers can do, and the pain is constant throughout, but still having to be there and do all the things as a mom, you know, still lift her up and, you know, act, you know, do all — do the necessary mother duties. And it’s not easy, but for me, I think most of my life has been a case of adapting. Just adapting to what I can do and just doing the best I can do in any situation.  

Cheryl:     Right, right. Right. Yeah. And that’s — yeah, having any child, what I found, ’cause I have one child as well. Very similar situation. Diagnosed at 20, and then I, when I had my first child, I went into remission during pregnancy and then terrible postpartum flare-up. And I think it’s hard because you’re learning how to be a mom. 

Grace:      Yes. 

Cheryl:     And you’re learning how to be a mom with arthritis. So, it’s like two separate things, you know?

Grace:      Yes, yes. 

Cheryl:     And so, I just, you know, my heart goes out to you. I hope — I ended up having to switch medications because my original medication I was on never worked as well after my son was born. So, I did — I want to say for anyone listening that the latest episode of the Arthritis Life podcast, I had an interview with Mariah Leach from Mama’s Facing Forward. And she gave a lot of resources. Yeah, there’s a lot out there for mother to baby, and — but it’s still hard. The individual circumstances are always hard if you’re in the middle of a flare. 

Grace:      Yeah, and that’s a really good episode, and I actually need to re-listen to that as well. So, thank you for doing that episode. 

Cheryl:     Oh, no problem. 

Grace:      Thank you. And just like you, Cheryl, I’ve been on a number of medications, you know, some haven’t worked. So, they’ve been switching this, applying for funding for me to try new things. So, now I’m on a medication where I take it twice a year, every six months. Last time, so, a few months after — when my — a month after my postpartum flare-up kicked off, I took this medication — this treatment, sorry, I should say — and it didn’t have any effect whatsoever. So, I am due another one coming up, but in and around that, I am trying to be more active with myself, you know, booking into private hydrotherapy sessions as well.  

Cheryl:     Oh, great

Grace:      And just doing as much as they can to actually move by limbs because, of course, the stiffness, you know. I don’t want my body to be locked in a certain position, which is what can happen. And the same has happened to my wrist because I wasn’t that mindful of my wrist, and now I don’t have any flexibility in my wrist. And, you know, these are — these are the things that happen behind the scenes to us where we’re kind of fighting an ongoing battle without, you know, with our bodies, but people don’t know the realities of how it is where every night when I go to bed, you know, the pain, the agony is there, waking up very stiff, it’s a struggle to go to the bathroom. And your body’s constantly in this warming up kind of phase, just kind of almost trying to grease, grease the joints to get them moving. But yes, it’s not easy at all. 

Cheryl:     And I’m just, I’m struck by the fact that like, when I first, you know, met you on Instagram, I’m like looking at your profile like, “Oh, she’s doing so great, like look at all these beautiful pictures,” and we all do that, right, when we look at someone else and think that their life must be easier than ours, or maybe just their life is a certain way. And so, yeah, you’re really fighting like more of like, an invisible, you know, an invisible battle. 

Grace:      Yeah, yeah. That’s exactly it. And that’s why —

Cheryl:     What are some — oh, sorry, go on, go on.

Grace:      No, that’s fine. I was very excited to, you know, connect with your community and just see the amazing stuff that you’re doing to create more awareness. And it’s, it’s something that I feel is a personal mission of mine as well, with so many young people, especially now having more autoimmune conditions than ever before, just shining a light that you’re not alone. And there is light at the end of the tunnel. I know that in this moment now it can feel like a painful reality. But by being in a supportive community like yours, hearing from other like-minded people that are going through it, you know, you take inspiration from, you know, as you can pick and choose, etc. But take what you need for yourself in order just to help you just move forward, day by day, step by step because it is, you know, with everything, it’s a process. So, it’s for you to navigate through and find out what works well for you. And how to feel good in yourself as well.  

Cheryl:     Absolutely. And that was — you’re actually anticipating my next question perfectly, which was going to be, what are some of the things that have helped you cope, either like with the physical demands, like life hacks, or mental coping? Anything you want to mention about coping, I would love to hear, yeah.

Grace:      So, I do a lot of inner work, Cheryl. So, a lot of mindset work, working on my mind. Just trying to reframe things. Because before, I was saying, the early days, or early years of my arthritis, I was kind of in this pity stage of, “Pity me, I can’t do this anyway,” and that was not serving me or helping me whatsoever. If anything, it was probably making the flare-ups worse. And, you know, it wasn’t the case of, “Oh, I can’t do this anymore,” you know, “My life is diminishing as I know it.” You know, that whole mindset wasn’t serving me but it was actually taking on both those thoughts and actually getting to the core of why I’m feeling like that. And I remember writing a list of all the things that I can do, can’t do, and want to do. And it was a very powerful list, because obviously, all the things that are in the ‘Can’t do’ list was probably the longest column when I started out. And then I found myself crossing off a lot of things, all the things that I was saying I can’t do, I actually could do, but it was all up here. I’ve actually, you know, through programming, etc., I told myself I can’t do certain things. So —

Cheryl:     Yeah.

Grace:      That was a very liberating exercise for me. And I would recommend anyone listening as well just to do that, just to see that you can actually do a lot of things. And it’s all here, what your mind, your subconscious mind’s actually telling you. 

Cheryl:     Interesting. Did you learn that process through like formal therapy, or did you just discover it on your own? Like, how did you learn to do that exercise? Because it sounds great.  

Grace:      I think it was an extension of the coaching that I do. 

Cheryl:     Oh, yeah.

Grace:      Myself and my business partner, so, we’re always doing, you know, doing lists, working on our thoughts and beliefs. So, it was just something that with business and life, it’s the complete integration, you know, they’re one and the same, so.

Cheryl:     Yeah.

Grace:      By doing this — yeah, by doing this exercise, I find it really liberated me in myself, to know that, “Oh, my gosh, I can actually do a lot more.” And, like I was saying, it’s a case of adapting, just knowing that, okay, some things are not going to be easy to do, but let me do what I can, etc. And the things that are a struggle, just go easy on myself, you know, give myself a lot of grace and compassion, love on my body, and know that my body is working hard for me, you know. 

Cheryl:     Mm-hmm.

Grace:      It’s helping me to actually manage this condition, and we’re doing the best that we can together. So, and that’s one thing I have to say. Growing up, I never took my health that seriously. It was always, when it came to my list of priorities, it was always probably the last on the list. Something that I really took for granted, that here, being in the here and now, it’s something that I’m very mindful of. Just loving on myself, showing myself compassion, knowing that my body is working the best for, you know, us, both of us, and just continually working on my mind. Surrounding myself with, you know, brilliant people like yourself, just — you know, seriously. Seriously, Cheryl. You know, you’re inspiring a nation. You know, with all your hacks.

Cheryl:     No, but yeah, I really — I am the most interested in all of the things to do with managing rheumatoid arthritis. The mental part is my favorite part to think about and talk about. My little — my unofficial tagline for Arthritis Life is ‘Come for the life hacks, stay for the coping tools’ or ‘Stay for the emotional support’ because you’re so right. And it’s not just like, oh, mind over matter, like we need to just like, change our mind so we don’t like perceive our pain or anything. Like, for me, that’s part of that self-compassion, like you mentioned, and mindfulness is being conscious of the present moment and allowing it to be as it is, and then seeing what are the possibilities. Like you mentioned, what can I still do? Because if we focus — and this is one of my soap boxes — but a lot of people when they first get diagnosed, especially, they focus very, very narrowly on ‘how can I cure or heal this and make it go away’, which is — I want to validate, that’s a totally logical like, pursuit that you would want to do. But when you continue in that mindset year after year after year, then you’re blinded to all these possibilities of what you could still do even despite, you know, because the fact is, some people are going to find a cure or a way to heal it. But a lot of people aren’t, you know. Otherwise, we would all be cured. Like, you know, it’s a lot —

Grace:      Yeah, exactly.

Cheryl:     Yeah. So, anyway, sorry. I went totally off on my soapbox. Yeah, the mental piece. Yeah. It’s like recalibrating.  

Grace:      Yeah, it’s exactly that, yeah. I love that word, recalibrating. And just accepting that, you know, I’m on a healing journey. So, to give myself that space, that time to heal. And like you said, you know, what works well for some people may not work well for you. So, it’s just finding your own rhythm. You know, I do trial and experiment with things. And, yeah. So, I guess, what else was I gonna say? I was gonna say something to you, Cheryl. Something popped into my mind.

Cheryl:     Oh, shoot.

Grace:      When you had your soapbox moment. 

Cheryl:     Yeah, I know. I know. I really — I just like, well, I wanna make sure I address this. If that comes back, go for it. But um, Dwayne had a great question, apart from the medications, what other therapies have worked for us. But let’s start with you. So, have you done any like, physiotherapy or gone to other kinds of like formal kinds of, I guess — like, I’ve gone to other like, I’ve done physical therapy, occupational therapy. I am an occupational therapist but I’ve also gone to one that was a hand specialist. So, that’s something I really recommend, a certified hand therapist, that’s who made my customized splints. And they specialize in the hands. And of course, I’ve gone to therapy with a psychologist as well. But I agree with what you’re saying. I’ve done some actually business coaching programs that are all about like the mindset as well. And that’s really helped. And a couple other things that — what else have I — actually I went to a physiatrist, which is a doctor that specializes in the body but not a rheumatologist. So, like looked at it from a little bit of a different angle. And I have tried a couple of things, like I’ve gone to a certified — registered dietician to look at some of the, you know, nutrition aspects, and those have all been helpful.  

Grace:      Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think I’m quite similar. So, I have been to hand specialists again to get the splint brace as well. At the time, I was refused physiotherapy because of the level of inflammation that I had at the time, they felt that it would aggravate it a bit more. However, more recently, I have been referred on to physiotherapy and I’m actually indulging in some private hydrotherapy sessions as well.  

Cheryl:     Yeah. Can you tell me about what that’s like? I’ve never tried that one. What is hydrotherapy?

Grace:      Well, I haven’t started yet. I’m due to — 

Cheryl:     Oh, okay. Okay.

Grace:      Yeah, yeah. So, I will, I will definitely let you know how it is on that front. And so, other things, I guess it’s just really the mind, the mindset around it, just trying to reframe what’s really going on here and not, not spinning off into the negative, but trying to find a better feeling thought. Embracing the thought, but trying to find a better feeling thought, you know, like I was saying before. That can actually do things, you know. It’s difficult as you would know, Cheryl, you know, with the simple everyday things, such as using kitchen utensils, cutting things, it’s the little things that most people take for granted. We really become conscious in that moment that it’s difficult, the day-to-day life. But yet, we every day, we do things, we cook, we attend to our babies. And so, we need to recognize just how much we are truly accomplishing while still being in really severe pain. 

Cheryl:     Yeah.

Grace:      Doing the everyday stuff. So, it’s just giving ourselves a lot of thanks and gratitude and our bodies as well. Our bodies are such really beautiful, beautiful, you know, beings, etc. And we take on so much, so I don’t think we fully give ourselves that gratitude and thanks. Just thank you for holding me up. Thank you for, you know, my legs, my feet for taking me, walking me to this place, etc., because it’s all things that are not easy to do, but yet we’re still doing it every single day.  

Cheryl:     Mm-hmm. And I love the metaphor. My friend, Dr. Kara Wada said — she has Sjögren’s and she’s an immunologist and allergist — and she said, “I like to think of my immune system as misbehaving. Thinking of it as like, ‘Oh, you know, it’s like a toddler. They’re like, they’re trying their best, but sometimes they can’t — they can’t control their impulses.'” You know, I’m thinking of like, thinking with compassion about what’s going on in your body is so — it ends up feeling better than thinking I’m fighting like, against my body. I know a lot of people — I mean, some people, whatever works for you, right? Some people find comfort in this like warrior language. And sometimes I use that language too. Like I’m a — I’m fighting rheumatoid arthritis, you know, but other times, it’s better to think, “Oh, I have this, you know, my immune system, it’s trying really hard and it’s just misbehavior and misguided,” you know. It’s like, I’m going to go attack all these foreign invaders and it just — it just is, makes a mistake and thinks that my synovial lining of my joints is a foreign invader. 

Grace:      Yes, yes.

Cheryl:     And it’s like, yeah, okay, well, you know, like, good try, you know. Like, thinking about it that way as opposed to like, ugh, I’m so — and it’s okay, again, allow yourself to feel whatever you’re feeling. But there’s ways to, like you mentioned, reframe and kind of change the habitual way that you relate to yourself and your body and what’s going on. 

Grace:      Yes. I love that, I love that. And that is true, actually, yeah. And I’ve heard that before, actually, that seemed that pain is actually working on behalf of us and for us. 

Cheryl:     Oh, totally. Yeah, it’s the same with anxiety because I struggle a lot with anxiety. And anxiety is protective, right? Like, you need some. It tells — it’s your body’s response to a threat, you know. Oh, hello, from Angie from Peru. And so, you know, if you didn’t have anxiety ever, then if you had a threat, like a big lion was trying to attack you, you would die, right? You’d just be like hello, I don’t have anxiety, you know, so it’s this thing. So, but the thing is to know that, okay, it’s one thing to have anxiety about things that are truly a threat. But other times, we have anxiety about things that aren’t really as big of a threat as they seem. But what you mentioned about pain, it’s the same thing too. Having a response to pain, your brain wants to pay attention to it because it thinks there’s a threat, you know. But with chronic pain, one of the phenomena that occurs with chronic pain is that the size of your response — your brain’s detecting how important this pain is — is out of proportion to the actual amount of tissue damage that’s happened. So, that’s not to say that your pain is all in your head, or you’re not thinking about it correctly, but to know that sometimes we can — and this is not necessarily the case with a disease in like rheumatoid arthritis that has a continuous process. But a lot of times, we can have — we can have some degree of chronic pain on top of the rheumatoid arthritis pain. So, yay. And some people are having comments saying that what we’re saying is helpful, so that’s really good.  

Grace:      Oh, lovely.

Cheryl:     Yeah.

Grace:      Yeah. And yeah, actually, that’s — you mentioning anxiety, that’s actually triggered what I actually wanted to say. 

Cheryl:     Oh, perfect.

Grace:      That I find that my flare-ups are really spread on when I get into an anxious state as well. So, when I’m thinking about all my, you know, I start to go in my head and start to think about all the things that I have to do in the future, and I’m in that state or mode. That’s when I find my body responds in that way. So, I think it’s very — it’s brilliant that you touched upon that as well. So, I’m really trying and mastering how to be very present, consciously present in this moment. 

Cheryl:     Oh, my gosh. 

Grace:      Yeah. Yeah.

Cheryl:     It’s so hard. 

Grace:      It’s not easy to do. It’s not.

Cheryl:    Well, and it’s so funny, because I always tell a story of when I was first learning like mindfulness from my therapist. And she was like — well, I have two different ones — but yeah, she and he both had said things like, “Can you — can you just sit with the uncertainty?” because my anxiety is a lot about uncertainties, what’s going to happen, you know.

Grace:      Yes.

Cheryl:     You know, am I gonna — is this new medication gonna work, or is it not gonna work? Am I gonna flare-up? What should I do? Is this the right thing? And she’s like, you know, can you sit with it? And I was like, why? Like, what kind of like, this is a sadistic therapy. You’re telling me to sit with my uncomfortable feelings? Like, no. I want you to tell me how to feel better, because I’m going to therapy to feel better. And that’s — they had this really amazing quote, and it’s from Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, also known as ACT. And they said, “ACT isn’t about feeling better. It’s about ‘feeling’ better meaning, allowing yourself to feel in a more deeper way, as opposed to trying to feel ‘better'”, and I don’t — I don’t know in the UK if it’s as much this way, but in the US it’s like, the predominant messages is it’s all about, you need to feel happy. You need to feel happy, you know. And like, just change your mindset so you feel happy. But what’s crazy — or not crazy, I don’t wanna use that word — what’s been really surprising and wonderful for me is that when I stopped pressuring myself to feel better all the time and feel happy all the time, I actually — I did feel happier, because I felt more at peace. But you can’t get there by trying. It’s like, you can’t achieve the goal by trying to go directly to the goal. It’s like an indirect process.  

Grace:      Yes. Yeah. That’s it. I think you’ve hit the bell there. And, you know, I think just growing up and just hearing other people talk, we’re kind of, you know, we’re kind of taught to dismiss our thoughts, you know, what we’re feeling, etc., you know.

Cheryl:     Yes.

Grace:      Feel happy, feel good. Make yourself, kind of forcing yourself but as humans, we can’t always feel happy, you know.

Cheryl:     No.

Grace:      That’s our human nature. So, it’s embracing how we’re feeling.

Cheryl:     I think that’s so true.

Grace:      Yeah. 

Cheryl:     And I think as — I’m curious if you’ll find this as a parent as your child gets a little older, because it was really amazing to me. I started going to therapy when my son turned — had just turned one. And when I became, you know, when I started the process of allowing myself to feel my feelings, as my child became a toddler, you know, where they have big feelings, it allowed me — it helped me allow him to just have feelings, you know. And like you said, so often we’re told that our feelings are bad, or you’re punished for your feelings, and I’ll constantly tell my son, you know, it’s okay to feel angry or to feel sad, but it’s not okay — your actions, your behaviors based on — I mean, he’s much older now. But what I would say is like, it’s okay to feel angry and oh, like, you know, but it’s not okay to hit someone. It’s not, you know, it’s the same way for us, you know, as adults. It’s okay. Any feeling is okay. You know, we are feeling beings. 

Grace:      It’s true.

Cheryl:     Yeah. Oh, apparently, apparently, we’re being very Zen right now. Yes. Yeah, yeah. So, it’s — I realized, like, even for me becoming an occupational therapist, which is like a helping profession, right, and one of the hardest things for me when I worked at pediatrics before doing my current work, and I would always want to like, you know, do that classic thing, you want to solve the person’s problem or make them feel better. And I realized that part of my — and I would feel so much anxiety about that. Like, if the child wasn’t doing well, I would think it was my fault and I would go on these spirals. And then I realized, oh, like, you know, they’re just humans. They’re humans that are going to feel happy sometimes, feel sad other times. My job is to help them cope with those feelings, not to — but it’s like, oh, my gosh. It’s such a big mind shift.

Grace:      It is, it is. And, you know, it’s something that we just need to continually work on every day. And as you said, it’s about finding that balance, that inner peace, and not dismissing our feelings, feeling into it. So, I love that as well. So, yeah, so many great people on. And I’m loving it. 

Cheryl:     I know, and from all over the world. That’s what I love about like, social media. I mean, just in general, you can connect to people across the globe. Yeah, um, yeah, I do timewise, I want to — unfortunately, I have to start wrapping it up, just because we had some things come up today. But I want to make sure I give you time to talk about anything else you want to talk about, like your own — you’re totally, I would love to hear if you would like to share about your coaching programs too, just because I’m trying to, you know, I will always want to support and amplify, you know, the work of other people with chronic illnesses, and also, you know, people of color, non-white people, because the chronic illness space, in least in the US especially, is very predominantly like, white, you know, so I’m trying to do a better job as an ally. 

Grace:      I love that. I love that mission as well. And yeah, so, for those that have just jumped on, I did announce that I am a business growth coach supporting women in corporates that want to start an online business whilst in a nine-to-five. So, if you’ve got — if it’s a seed of an idea, even if you started maybe a couple of months on, but you’re not seeing the traction that you truly desire in your business, you don’t have that overall clarity because, you know, sometimes we have these big goals, but we’re not quite clear on just how to get there, what it takes, you know, what we should be doing, the right actions to be taken because time is a commodity, you know, something very valuable. So, it’s where to focus your time, mind, and energy, so that you can get the biggest results. So, that’s exactly what myself and my business partner, Charlotte, the dynamic duo — the name is The Dynamic Duo in the online space — that’s what we do. So, if you feel called, maybe reach out to myself, then I invite you just to drop me a DM or follow my page. I am — oh, sorry, @iamgracenelson — just to find out more tips and what I share. I show up daily sharing value, and I would love to support you on your journey. And you know, just, you know, from one a lady to another or todays are watching, I would love to support you if you’re going through the same thing. Because it’s not just business strategy that I teach. It’s also mindset and the energy work because it can be an exhausting process with RA. So, it’s how you have that — how do you find that energy to start a new venture, which is essentially like giving birth to your new baby? That’s when it’s alongside your nine-to-five, as well as your family and all other commitments, how’s it possible to do all of this. I really teach from that kind of experiential mode, just sharing you my journey, how it can be done, what works, what doesn’t work importantly, so that you can find your own personalized pathway to doing so as well. So, I’m very much teaching a bespoke kind of way. So, I invite you, if you feel cool, just to send me a DM or connect with me. Thank you, Cheryl, for that opportunity.

Cheryl:     Oh, no, that’s so — that’s so wonderful. I mean, and I think there are so many people with rheumatoid arthritis or other, you know, any sort of health challenges or even without them anyway, who are still stuck in that nine-to-five rut and they don’t have the flexibility. Even after COVID there’s people who, you know, a lot of jobs realized, oh, we can let people work remotely, but now they’re saying, oh, you have to come back in, you know. So, having that freedom of having an online stream of income is so helpful for so many. I know some of the people who’ve come onto this call have some like side, you know, ventures as well, whether that’s, you know, an Etsy store or something else. But um, but yeah, I think it’s wonderful that you’re supporting people and I — and you’re showing through your example that it’s possible, you know.

Grace:      Yeah, yeah, I’m just very much about, you know, leading myself first, showing other people from my experiences what can be done, so that, you know, it’s easy just to connect, and you don’t feel like this is going to be a lot of hard work, really gonna take a toll on me, but it can be done. Your desires are yours for a reason. So, it’s about saying ‘Yes’ to yourself, and moving towards them. That’s why I truly believe.

Cheryl:     That’s so, so beautiful. It reminds me of something that my 11th Grade English teacher said. All the teachers out there, you know, we still remember things sometimes, 20 years ago, but she really drilled this into us. She said, “Show, don’t tell,” like, show in your writing. And so, you know, and so, I think, yeah, in your example you’re showing. As well, sometimes, we do need to be told, you know, sometimes we’re a little — my brain’s a little slow sometimes. Like, with the mindfulness stuff, I was like, you need to tell me again. Like, I’m still not getting it. But yeah, showing is the most powerful, so.

Grace:      Yes, it is. I agree. Well, Cheryl, thank you so much for having me in your world, being connected with your audience. I’ve really enjoyed myself sharing my journey and story. 

Cheryl:     Yay! Thank you all. 

Grace:      Thank you. Take care. Bye-bye.

Cheryl:     You too, bye-bye! 

[Ending music]

Thank you so much for listening to today’s episode. This episode is brought to you by Rheum to THRIVE, a membership and support community where you’ll learn how to develop your own THRIVE toolbox so you can live a full life despite your rheumatic disease or chronic illness. Learn more in the show notes, or by going to www.myarthritislife.net. You can also connect with me on my social media accounts on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and even TikTok. Check out the links in the show notes.