Summary:
Emily Johnson shares her journey from medical gaslighting to a diagnosis of seronegative arthritis during her university years. She and Cheryl discuss how they combine lifestyle changes with western medication to manage rheumatoid arthritis.
Emily also explains how her experiences inspired her to write a book about lifestyle changes for rheumatoid arthritis, called “Beat Arthritis Naturally.” Cheryl and Emily discuss the wisdom of a “both/and” rather than an “either/or” approach to combining pharmaceutical with lifestyle approaches to disease and symptom management. They also share insights on how they cope with fluctuating symptoms and difficult times with self-kindness.
Episode at a glance:
- Emily’s diagnosis story for seronegative rheumatoid arthritis.
- Medical gaslighting: Emily and Cheryl discuss how they were initially “medically gaslit” by providers who didn’t believe they were really sick when they first presented with symptoms
- Managing Arthritis with lifestyle and medication: Emily and Cheryl discuss their treatment journeys and how they each discovered what worked for their bodies over time
- Learning what works for your body: Emily & Cheryl discuss the importance of symptom tracking and keeping a “Symptom diary”
- Emily’s personal experiences lead her to write a book, “Beat Arthritis Naturally.” which has many lifestyle tips that people can use alongside western medicine. The book includes tips for nutrition, exercise, sleep, stress management, pain management and more.
- Hot topics: Cheryl & Emily discuss the importance of a “both/and” rather than “either/or” approach to natural methods and western medication, and explore the dangers of “doing your own research” and that all research is not created equal
- What was it like to write a book about arthritis?
- Emily’s words of encouragement to newly diagnosed patients
- Coping & Self-Kindness: Emily & Cheryl reflect on how to cope with ups and downs of chronic illness life
Episode Sponsors
Rheum to THRIVE, a community support & education program Cheryl created to help people with rheumatic disease go from overwhelmed, confused and alone to confident, supported and connected. Join the waitlist for the next group!
Rheumatoid Arthritis Roadmap, a self-paced online course Cheryl created that teaches you how to confidently manage your physical, social and emotional life with rheumatoid arthritis.
Medical disclaimer:
All content found on Arthritis Life public channels was created for generalized informational purposes only. The content is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
Speaker Bios:
Emily Johnson, also known as Arthritis Foodie, has had seronegative arthritis since the age of 20. Emily manages her condition through medicine and lifestyle factors (including nutrition) and is the author of the book “Beat Arthritis Naturally.”
Cheryl Crow
Cheryl is an occupational therapist who has lived with rheumatoid arthritis for nineteen years. Her life passion is helping others with rheumatoid arthritis figure out how to live a full life despite arthritis, by developing tools to navigate physical, emotional and social challenges. She formed the educational company Arthritis Life in 2019 after seeing a huge need for more engaging, accessible, and (dare I say) FUN patient education and self-management resources.
Episode links:
Emily’s links
- “Beat Arthritis Naturally” on Worldwide Book Depository
- Instagram: @arthritisfoodie
- Twitter: @arthritisfoodie
- Tiktok: @arthritisfoodie
Cheryl’s Arthritis Life Pages:
- Youtube channel
- Instagram @arthritis_life_cheryl
- TikTok @arthritislife
- Arthritis Life Facebook Page
- Cheryl on Twitter: @realcc
- Arthritis Life Podcast Facebook Group
Full Episode Transcript:
[Introductory music]
Hi! My name is Cheryl Crow, and I am passionate about helping people navigate real life with arthritis. I’ve lived with rheumatoid arthritis for 17 years and I’m also a mom, teacher, and occupational therapist. I’m so excited to share my tricks for managing the ups and downs of life with arthritis. Everything from kitchen life hacks, and how to respond when people say, “You don’t look sick”, stress, work, sex, anxiety, fatigue, pregnancy, and parenting with chronic illness — no topic will be off limits here. I’ll also talk to other patients and share their stories and advice. Think of this as your chance to sit down and chat with a friend who’s been there. Ready to figure out how to manage your arthritis life? Let’s get started.
Cheryl:
I’m so excited to have Emily, The Arthritis Foodie, today on The Arthritis Life podcast! Welcome!
Emily:
Hi, Cheryl! Thanks so much for having me. Oh my gosh, I wanted to do this for so long. But getting a date in the diary has been so hard.
Cheryl:
Oh, I’m so glad it worked out. Yeah, with the time difference and everything. Yeah. So, can you just give the listeners a quick introduction, you know, where do you live? And what is your relationship to arthritis?
Emily:
Of course, yeah. So, my name is Emily, also known as Arthritis Foodie. I live in the UK in London. I’m originally actually from Yorkshire, which is a bit further up north. I run an Instagram account called @ArthritisFoodie, which I started back in 2018 having lived with arthritis for about five years back then. I’ve now lived with it for about eight years. And I’ve written a book called Beat Arthritis Naturally, which is everything you can do alongside your medication to feel better, feel well every day, and sort of empower you in living well with arthritis. And much like what Arthritis Life does, I guess, as well, what you do in terms of empowering people and making people feel good. Yeah.
Cheryl:
Yeah, definitely very, very congruent. And I’m not the best foodie though. I love eating, but I’m not the best chef. I’m a work-in-progress there. But you post amazing things about, you know, recipes that are anti-inflammatory. And you explain, you know, I know in the book, how certain foods can affect our overall inflammation level and our sense of wellbeing. But before we dive into the book, I want to make sure to ask more about — yes, yes, visual aids.
Emily:
This is what it looks like.
Cheryl:
Yes, if you’re watching on the video. But I would love to know a little bit about — you said you got diagnosed five years before 2018. So, 2012? I can’t do math. 2013.
Emily:
Yeah, 2013. Yeah, 2013 is when it started. But it was actually — it was actually, it took about nearly two years to get a diagnosis. I say it started in 2013 because that’s when I got the first symptoms. But the actual diagnosis took oh, my gosh, yeah, took nearly two years to get that diagnosis, unfortunately. I mean, it’s quite a long process, as I’m sure you’re aware of, having spoken with so many wonderful people on your podcast and, you know, having the experience yourself. It takes a while to get the diagnosis. Yeah.
Cheryl:
Yeah, yeah. Can you tell us a little more about like, what were your first symptoms and what was your experience with your diagnosis quote-unquote ‘journey’ or ‘saga’ as I sometimes call it? Yeah.
Emily:
Yeah, absolutely, Cheryl. So, for me… Gosh, I mean, it was an accumulation of things but effectively I was working really hard as a tutor in Italy and working all hours. And then I got a really bad cold and one of my fingers starts to swell whilst I was in Italy. And I thought it was just the heat and even though it actually wasn’t even that hot in Italy at the time, it was September, so it wasn’t in that warm. Anyway, and I thought, “Oh, that’s strange. Okay.” And I started sneezing and being feeling a bit rundown. And it’s okay, it’s fine. You know, I’m sure it will pass. It might be hay fever because we were in the countryside as well in Italy. Anyway, so I get back home, I start my third year of university and it’s Freshers Week. And the symptoms get even worse. I’m really struggling to stay awake. I’m sleeping all hours of the day, pretty much. I’m getting through, you know, those boxes of tissues, I’d go through like three in a day just because I was sneezing so much. Yeah, it was really hard. And I had to miss lectures and because it was Freshers Week as well and I was trying to socialize and, you know, make friends actually with the with the flat mates that I’d moved in with because the girls I lived with in the year before, they’d moved away. So, I was really trying to also be sociable in that time and trying to attend things. I was just really unwell but pushing myself during that week. And I went to the doctors and they were like, “You’ve got freshers flu. And don’t worry, it’s gonna pass,” and I was like, “No, but I’ve had these symptoms for a while now. I don’t feel right.”
And anyway, over the weeks progress I just felt worse and worse and worse, and I couldn’t move my hands. You know, they were really stiff, they were swollen. My thumbs were absent. I was just an absolute agony. I felt really unwell, really fatigued. And in the end actually I ended up taking about six weeks, two months, off University. I ended up going home. My mom picked me up from university, and I went to live with her for a bit and I just said to my lecturers and my tutors, “I can’t come in. I’m really unwell.” Got back and I still didn’t feel right. But I went to A&E, I went to a GP, I still kept trying to get answers. And, and again, you know, so many, you know, I think someone was like, “Oh, it’s an infection from sexually transmitted diseases.” I was like, what? I’ve not even like — what? I’ve not even been, you know, active. How is that a thing? They were throwing everything at me that they would throw to students, a typical student, I suppose. And, but none of it was, you know, it just wasn’t true. And so yeah, so it was one day that I took my flat mate to A&E with me because I was just so desperate. And she came with me to A&E and they sent me home they were like, “Sorry, we don’t know what the swelling is about. You’re gonna have to get back to the GP,” it was just like, just a constant not knowing. And actually, the not knowing is really upsetting and actually mentally tolling as well. Because you don’t have a name to it. You don’t have to look after it. You don’t have to take care of yourself. You don’t know. There’s no medicine for it. You just think oh, my gosh, when is this going to end? You know, it took a long time to get that diagnosis. So, it’s really tough. Um —
Cheryl:
Wow, I totally —
Emily:
Yeah, going off on a tangent now. It’s a saga.
Cheryl:
No, but I always tell people the uncertainty, yeah, being undiagnosed was by far the hardest part for me, by far.
Emily:
Yeah, definitely.
Cheryl:
And just for the audience that might be listening from the United States, is A&E — I always forget, is that emergency?
Emily:
Emergency department, yes. Yeah, Accident & Emergency, because I just didn’t know what to do. I was with my — I’ve got all my — bless my housemate at the time, Charlie. She was so sweet. She kept writing down — because I couldn’t write because my hands was just a mess — kept writing down everything that was happening to me so that we had this record. And we took that to the hospital when I literally was like, “Charlie, I don’t know what to do,” and I was crying. And she says, “I’ll come with you to A&E.” So, you know, that happened. She was so, so sweet. And yeah, I just was, it was really miserable time. Really, really, really miserable time. And it was only when I went back home, saw the GP with my mum. And I think when you have someone with you, it almost takes the emotion away from it because they can objectively help you in that time. And I often say to people if you’re struggling, take someone with you in the appointment, when you have any appointments because they can ask the questions that you might forget or miss because you’re so upset and so in the emotion of what’s happening to your body. So, she came with me and then that got me to a referral to the rheumatology department. It’s a town that I grew up in called Retford hospital. I got a referral there to a rheumatologist there and he was like, “Look, you’ve got inflammatory arthritis. It’s going to last a year. Let’s start you on this medication.” And we kind of went from there. But it didn’t last a year. I think I’ve got this, you know, for life which is, you know, which is fine and I’ve come to terms with that but from then, it was like okay, at least I know what I’m dealing with now. And yeah.
Cheryl:
No, I didn’t realize we were both diagnosed — like, it was between my third and fourth year of university that I got diagnosed. I had the same thing. I took my mom with me to appointments.
Emily:
Oh, yeah. So tough.
Cheryl:
Then one of my, one of the specialists I went to was gastrointestinal because I lost weight and lost a lot of muscle mass too, but like, and I couldn’t eat. Like, I had something we didn’t know yet called gastroparesis, which it’s not super common with rheumatoid arthritis necessarily, but it’s just basically is delayed gastric emptying. So, like every time I would eat, I would just feel like I had like a bowling ball in my stomach. I would be super bloated. Yeah, it was awful. And then, but they said, what they said, that gastroenterologist first said is literally they accused me of being like too close to my mom. Like, I don’t even know. I’m sorry, like – are you a psychiatrist? I’m like – first of all, I’m in pain and I can’t eat. And then they also called my parents and said that we also think she’s probably just has an eating disorder and she’s just faking and like she’s actually not sick.
Emily:
I got that. I got the gaslighting too, the sort of like, you know. I mean, literally, he was like, “Oh, you know, I think you probably need some help. In terms of your mental well-being you’ve obviously taken too much too much on at university,” because I am a Type A person. I still was doing volunteering and doing like, you know, volunteering at a primary school, dance society, and also a student representative. I was doing those things alongside my degree in the lead up to having my symptoms. And he was like, “I just think you need to step back, you know, you’ve taken too much on, et cetera, et cetera.” I was like, nope. No, look at my hands. Look at my hands, please, you have to do something. And that’s when he was like, “Okay, right, we’ll give you an ultrasound.” And they saw the fluid in my joints. They were like, this is classed as severe. But also, so interesting about the, about your gut health, because actually, I’ve missed a whole step actually, at the beginning where I actually had food poisoning. I had food poisoning right before going to Italy. I had food poisoning for about, yeah, symptoms that lasted for about two weeks. Really bad. And sorry, to anyone, but really bad diarrhea; really, really bad. And that lasted for two weeks. And it just didn’t get any, I mean, it just kind of pretty much was not normal for a few years, actually. And so yeah, so that’s, that’s also quite an interesting gut health, immune health, and how that’s connected. And I talk a lot about that in my book as well. But that is what I say sort of triggered everything. You know, your genetics hold the bullets and your environment pulls the trigger, is what I say in the book, you know. I was susceptible to having this. And it was just an accumulation of things, you know, stressed, hadn’t had much sleep, I’d gotten food poisoning and my body was just like, whoa. And started attacking itself.
Cheryl:
Yes, I didn’t know — well, that’s so funny because I started having these symptoms. But mine were not — I only had one joint that hurt. So, that’s why no one was thinking rheumatology. And again, I don’t blame them, because I didn’t.
Emily:
Yeah, it was only this finger that hurt first. Yeah.
Cheryl:
I saw your picture.
Emily:
Yeah. So, I basically, I knew — the day I knew I was better when I could put the ring back on. Which I never thought would happen, by the way. I thought I just have to live — yeah. But I couldn’t. It literally used to go about that far. And I couldn’t get it on. So yeah, it started in that finger. And then it moved to my thumbs, and then to this finger. And but it was like you said, that’s so interesting that you started with one finger because I did as well. It started with one finger. Then it was over the course of months and weeks that it spread elsewhere.
Cheryl:
Well, and then I also got food poisoning. This is so weird, but —
Emily:
Oh! Yeah, it’s mad, isn’t it.
Cheryl:
Yeah. And I know that there are like documented theories of you know, autoimmune disease being triggered by a viral infection. But I had already had these like pre-symptoms of the one swollen finger for like two years, then the food poisoning was like, that was the gun that just shot off because it was like then every single joint after the food poisoning hurt. But yes, so anyway, yeah, our stories are just are fascinating.
Emily:
Very similar. Yeah, I’ve had a lot — I’ve had messages from people, you know, through the community, that we have online that, yeah, that they’ve had this similar experience, even since the book has come out. Because I talk about my journey in the first chapter, I think, I have a lot of people reach out to me and go, “This is so similar to what’s happened to me.” It’s so interesting that it’s also similar to you as well, Cheryl.
Cheryl:
Well, and so — no, totally. And in terms of just going a little bit chronologically, so after you finally get your diagnosis, you know, what were some of the treatment approaches that you’ve tried over the years? And we’re, you know, speaking, as my medical disclaimer says, you know, speaking just about your story, not necessarily telling anyone else that this medication will or won’t work for them, but, you know, I’m curious like how your treatment journey evolved, because I know that you then ended up experimenting with a lot of other tons of different tools in your toolbox that led you to creating the book, I think. Not to put words in your mouth.
Emily:
No, of course. Yeah, no, no, that’s exactly right. So, gosh, yeah, I tried so many different things. I think they started me on Naproxen, and I also had steroid injections for the pain and for the inflammation to get my inflammation levels down. Sulfasalazine, methotrexate, tablet for methotrexate, injection form, and Humira biologics. And what’s worked for me the best is the combination of methotrexate with Humira. But at one point, nothing was working. Like, nothing was working. So, I just, I felt really low and sort of like, oh, my gosh, is there nothing I can do, sort of thing. Because I’d, for years, it’s so interesting that I actually am Arthritis Foodie, but for years, I was like, “I don’t have arthritis, I’m fine. No one needs to know about it. I’ll carry on as I am. I’ll try and do my best,” but, you know, I don’t want to be judged for having this and not that. Not that I judge anybody but I was judging myself almost. Like, oh, I just want to be a normal young person and not have to deal with this. And so, for I think for a long time, I sort of was like, “Oh, I’ll just let the medicine do its thing. I don’t need to worry about this. I can live my life; I can do what I want. And I can just ignore it. And it’s up to the rheumatologist to sort it out,” kind of thing.
But then in 2018, I was just — I hit rock bottom, basically, in terms of my pain. It spread to my left knee, my ankles, my elbows. And I woke up — I was on holiday with my friend, and like, I woke up and like, my arm was bent and I couldn’t stretch it. And she was like, “Oh, maybe you just slept funny,” and I was like, no. I knew what was happening. And I mean, it’s better now. But I mean, it’s like, I literally couldn’t, I couldn’t straighten my arm. I was like, my arm, I was so upset. And so, I came back from that holiday and I was like, I’ve got to do something. I’ve got to try. And my friends who I worked with in the office, they were like, um, have you looked into food for your arthritis? Have you researched? And I was like, oh, you know, what’s it going to do, really? And then they were like, is there any harm in it? Is there any harm in trying? I was like, probably not. And so, I went on Instagram, and went online and tried to find someone blogging about food and arthritis. And I just, I couldn’t really find anyone that I could relate to that was posting just food, and arthritis. So, I was like, okay, maybe I could start talking about it and doing a diary. And I had no idea would lead to any of this. And it just started out of posting pictures of my food anonymously for about eight months, anonymously. And then as the page grew and people started asking me what I’ve been doing to help myself. And I did start to feel better in myself, having changed my diet, and, you know, having changed my behavior around sleep, stress, everything like that.
Cheryl:
And was it all self-taught? So, you learned, like, did you learn just through looking at other people’s websites? Like, what even — like, how did you even get started? Because I get, I always say, I tell people, it’s very normal to be overwhelmed when you look at diet for arthritis.
Emily:
So, overwhelming. Oh, my gosh, it’s so overwhelming, yeah.
Cheryl:
Does everyone agree, the only thing that everyone agrees on is like, not processed food. You know, more of plant —
Emily:
Oh, 100%.
Cheryl:
You know, whole foods-based.
Emily:
Whole foods, plant-based, yeah.
Cheryl:
But then, anything more than that, it’s like, it feels like I just get confused. So, yeah.
Emily:
Yeah, 100%. And so, for me, it was a lot of, a lot of self-taught. I mean, I was like a dog with a bone. Like, I was like, I’m gonna find out what to do with this, like, I just wouldn’t let it go. So, I was looking into everything. Like, everything you’ve heard off in terms of arthritis diet, like, I’ve looked into it, you know. I’ve really, I really have. And I was following people like, The Doctor’s Kitchen, Dr Jenna Macchiochi, their content are amazing. Plant Power Doctor, you know, I speak about all these people in the book as well. And just sort of going, God, there really is like a connection between the immune system and GERD and, you know, chronic illness. It’s just got to be something in there.
So, I just, yeah, I guess it was all kind of self-taught and researching off the back of that. And then I had some messages of people going, you know, like you said, wherever did you find this information? And I couldn’t point them in any direction, because it was all over the place. You know, it was books on my shelf, you know, on my shelves, it was tabs on my website, you know, on my browser, it was notes in a book, like it was all over the place. And so, I thought, okay, well, you know, do you know what, actually, there isn’t anything on the market that is what I would have wanted at 20 years old not knowing where to turn, what to do. So, yeah, basically, this is the book that I wish I’d had at the start of my journey and it’s everything; everything you could possibly want to know about living with arthritis, including a whole chapter on all the different types of arthritis and all the different types of medications and pain relief and everything like that. It’s, you know, it’s a real holistic look at the whole picture, it’s not going you know, “Use this book and you will be cured,” it’s absolutely not that at all. This is a way to live with arthritis, you know, and you take what you want from it and what works for you because I just did about the medical disclaimer. Sorry, that was my USA flag just there.
Cheryl:
That’s okay.
Emily:
As you said in your medical disclaimer, you know, what works for one person might not work for another. And it’s the same with diet and lifestyle and food, and you’ve got to figure it out for yourself which is — yeah, it can be like, oh, God, can’t someone just do it for me? But actually, the empowerment you get of going, “Yeah, I’m doing this myself. I’m taking care of myself,” is so powerful. And yeah. I can’t remember what you asked me now. [Laughs]
Cheryl:
No, no. That’s how this podcast goes. Yeah, I love it. No, it actually, you wove it in really nicely that you kind of — a lot of us end up doing trial and error on our own bodies and almost become like, a scientist about your body and say what happens, you know. And if, for example, for me, one of my strongest, most reliable triggers for fatigue is sunlight or heat, but one or the other, but worse together. Which is more common in lupus, but it can happen in rheumatoid arthritis, where you’re really sensitive, and you just have to — I have to learn, wait a minute, I just feel like at a certain point, I just can’t tolerate sun, you know, so I have to be in the shade. Or, you know, there’s obviously other ones, like, you know, people need to, can learn that stress really triggers their inflammation.
Emily:
Yeah, stress really triggers me.
Cheryl:
So, learning that, okay — yeah, me too. I was so — I had this denial period. Like, you were saying earlier, you kind of had a little — I mean, I don’t want to put the word denial in your mouth, but you’re saying that you’re like, “Oh, I don’t really have arthritis.”
Emily:
100%. Yeah, I was like, what is this? No, that’s not — [Laughs]
Cheryl:
Well, especially when you’re young. It’s hard. And, you know, so I think, you know, something I wanted to just bring up about the book. I don’t want people to be — okay, let me just start the sentence again. You know, the title of the book is ‘Beat Arthritis Naturally’, and I, if you’ve listened to this podcast before, you know that I’m very much like, you know, about balancing whatever works for you, and getting the advice of your providers and combining every tool in your toolbox that might work, Western medicine and natural methods. And I think, I just want to say it for anyone listening that, you know, the word ‘natural’ is sometimes confusing to people, you know. That they think if I say ‘Beat arthritis naturally’, it means only natural methods. But they put that word ‘only’ in there, you know? And yeah, you’re very clear in all of your materials that this is not.
Emily:
Very clear.
Cheryl:
Yeah, and your own personal journey that you combine. And so, it’s a both and not an either/or approach.
Emily:
Absolutely, absolutely. This is everything you can do alongside, you know. It’s all the things that you don’t, yeah, you don’t have to Google ’cause it’s in here, you know. All the things that you are not sure about. And yeah, absolutely, the combined approach has been the best for me. And, you know, I’ve actually had, yeah, had such positive outcomes from it. And understanding my body, like you said about stress, that’s a huge trigger for me; dairy is a huge trigger for me. And, you know, and discovering that has been so helpful, you know. Even fried foods, actually. When I first started this journey, I was I was tracking everything. And I had fried foods and the day after, like, my finger swells. And I was like, well, that’s so obvious. That’s the only thing that’s, you know, I wasn’t stressed and I was out with my friends. It wasn’t — that’s the only thing. So, you know, it is knowing your body, and understanding your body, and absolutely finding what works for you. And do you know, what, also not shaming anyone, if the way, you know, if you want to go fully, fully medicine, fine. Absolutely. Do it if that’s what works for you. If you want to go fully natural, fine, if that’s what works for you. But for me, a balance of being in between both and knowing what works for me is just, yeah, it’s been life changing, to be honest with you.
Cheryl:
Yeah. And earlier, you mentioned that, you know, you got — you had a kind of an eclectic set of resources that you used to find information about diet and stress and lifestyle and sleep. And I just, I want to make sure people know that you have citations throughout the book.
Emily:
Oh, gosh. Yeah.
Cheryl:
That experts have medically reviewed.
Emily:
Oh, my gosh, yeah. Yeah. So, if you go to the back of the book, I can show you on video, but if you’re listening, if you’re listening, you can probably hear the pages moving but this is all research. Thousands of research papers that I put it in into this. And also, yeah, got it signed off by rheumatologists as well. And to make sure that, you know, the content is right, and I’m not, you know, I’m not a doctor. I’m not a rheumatologist. I’m coming from a patient perspective. So, I got it signed off by rheumatologists as well.
Cheryl:
That is — because I mean, unfortunately, there are a lot of people that try to like, quote- unquote ‘do their own research’ but they don’t have the medical literacy to kind of understand how to sift through, like kind of too good to be true claims or claims that are based on evidence versus not. So, it is such an important tool or such an important service to have somebody who said look, I’ve gone through this like with a rheumatologist and with other experts and combining the power of my own personal journey and story, and then put together this resource for people. I think that’s just, yeah. It’s great. And can you tell the audience a little bit about the different chapters? Like, what are they —?
Emily:
Yeah, absolutely. More than happy to. Yeah. So, when I was, by the way, when I was reading those science papers, it took me a good month to sort of get my head around the terminology, understand the different types of research that can that, you know, that’s available that’s out there. So, yeah, my aim was to be able to decipher it and make it digestible for people and easy to understand and easy to read. And that was like a real, real big thing for me to do for everybody, is that.
Cheryl:
It’s an art form. It’s not everyone can do that, you know. A lot of scientists are so, they get into this mindset of like, they talk like a different language, almost, you know. You have to break it down to people, so they can understand it. So yeah, it’s a service that you’ve done.
Emily:
Yeah. Oh, thank you, Cheryl. That’s so sweet. And so, in terms of the contents of the book, we’ve got number one, all about arthritis, Chapter One. And so, like I said earlier, that’s everything to do with all the different types of arthritis, how to spot the symptoms, and the types of medicines that you can be on as well. And Chapter Two is anti-inflammatory essentials. So, this research is around everything in anything that I could find that had enough research behind it, you know, to state that it is anti-inflammatory, and it’s good for you, and it’s good in the body. And it’s the same with Chapter Three. So again, research around things that do or could trigger inflammation. So, it’s called ‘Avoiding inflammation’. So, we’ve already discussed one of them, which is processed foods. But again, it’s alcohol and smoking, it’s all the things we kind of already know about but just saying them again. Chapter Four is putting a plan in place. So, I know at the start of the podcast you said about being a chef and how, you know, my food is all the rest of it. But actually, I did not know where to start, I did not know what to do. I was terrible at cooking, which I talked about in here. I was really not good at cooking. My mom and my sister will definitely vouch for that.
So, Chapter Four is getting your kitchen setup and sort of the things that you need in the cupboard like dry spices, and things that are easy to grab and ready that are ready there to make your recipes. Chapter Five is your recipes, so you’ve got 65 tried-and-true recipes. You’ve got everything from breakfast, small plates, large plates, desserts, snacks and treats, drinks, juices, smoothies, sauces, sides, and dips. Chapter Six is pain management. So, I actually recruited a gentleman called Steve Haines for this chapter, and he contributed to it. And he’s written a book called ‘Pain is Really Strange’. So, he contributed to that chapter. And it’s all about how pain manifests in the body and how it’s linked with inflammation. And Chapter Seven is called ‘Make a Move’. So, that’s all about exercise and wellbeing and fitness and Actively Autoimmune, so Zoe McKenzie, she is a physiotherapist and she’s very popular on Instagram. She’s, if you’ve seen her, she’s brilliant at what she does, and she contributed to that chapter. And yeah, and then Chapter Eight is rest and sleep. So, that’s all about how important sleep is getting a good night’s sleep and how it can help your immunity and your overall wellbeing. And then Chapter Nine is be kind to your mind because as you all know, living with a chronic condition can really can take its toll on you mentally and physically. So, that sort of things that you can do to help yourself and manage that. And so yeah, that’s the book. That’s everything that’s in ‘Beat Arthritis Naturally’.
Cheryl:
That’s great. And I’m anticipating one of the questions might be, you know, a lot of people are on different diets. Like I said, I am gluten free even though it hasn’t affected my rheumatoid arthritis, it makes my stomach feel a lot better. I’m so, I have kind of bloating issues related to the gastroparesis. So, when I went gluten free that got so much better but didn’t really affect my arthritis. But some people find that gluten free really helps them or they’re like, wait — and I just got the digital copy of the book. Sorry.
Emily:
No, no, it’s all good.
Cheryl:
But is it something that people can adapt the recipes for like different, you know, diets?
Emily:
Yes, definitely. Absolutely. So, so on each recipe you’ve got little like icon things or letters and it’s V for vegan, VEG for vegetarian, DF for dairy free, and GF for gluten free. And so, you can spot which recipes if you are gluten free, you can spot them straightaway. Most of them are gluten free. In fact, probably near enough all of them are gluten free and they’re heavily plant-based. And if they aren’t plant-based then there’s the plant alternative to the recipe. Because I’m so plant-based. I mean, I have fish and I have chicken, but I probably have chicken once or twice a month and fish probably once a week, and the rest of it is very heavily plant based. And Dr Jenna Macciochi says to get at least 30 plant-based foods a week for your gut health. So, yeah, it’s trying to get all of that in.
Cheryl:
Yeah, that’s great. It’s so great to give people a place to just get started, like you said, you know, it can be so overwhelming trying to do it.
Emily:
So overwhelming.
Cheryl:
Yeah. I know it’s been out for a while in the UK, and it’s about to come out in the US. But what are some of the response has been like so far? Like you said earlier, a lot of people have contacted you saying that, like, just your diagnosis story resonated. But have you gotten any good feedback about just, you know, how people feel about the book? It’s time to brag. It’s a brag time.
Emily:
[Laughs] Thanks, Cheryl. So, yes, you know what, I have had some lovely feedback, some really heartwarming feedback from people who have read ‘Beat Arthritis Naturally’, and a lot of people are saying that it’s the book that they wish that they had when they first got arthritis, which is exactly what I wanted it to be able to do for people. And I’ve had feedback on some recipes as well. Some people have messaged with photos of their cooking, or messages saying, “I cooked your pancakes for my five-year-old, she loves them.” That’s really sweet. But then I’ve also had people comment on Amazon, there’s as a couple of Amazon reviews that I’ve looked at and gone, oh, wow. There was one lady who said that she started doing the things in the book. And she’s found relief from her frozen shoulder, which is just amazing.
Another lady who started ‘Beat Arthritis Naturally’ stuff in December last year, and she’s commented on Amazon recently and said, you know, ever since doing it, I’ve been feeling so, so much better. I was gonna have, you know, a hip replacement, actually, it’s already feeling, starting to feel so much better. And I love it. And, you know, like, something like that. Yeah, it’s really amazing stuff that people are coming back with and just saying that it’s making them feel good. And, you know, that’s exactly why I wrote it. That’s exactly what I’m here to do. And I just want to help as many people as possible. Because when I was feeling so alone, so down, and just did not know where to turn, I just didn’t know what to do. And so, this is the book that I hope will give people that lifeline. And even if what they take from it is just having green tea instead of five coffees, you know, whatever it is, if it’s small, if it helps.
Cheryl:
Yeah, it was so interesting as I started working with a registered dietician this year, which is something I hadn’t done in a long time. And she was like, I was telling her I’m really sensitive to beans, like, you know, they make — well, a lot of things make me bloated, sadly. And but she was like, you know, “Will you have coffee in the morning?” I’m like, yeah, coffee is fine. She’s like, “Cheryl, it’s a bean,” I was like, it hasn’t even occurred to me, you know what I mean?
Emily:
[Laughs] Oh, my gosh.
Cheryl:
I was like, in my mind, I was totally good at avoiding legumes and beans otherwise, but not coffee. So, I’ve started doing the green tea instead of coffee, but sometimes still — anyway, I’m on a journey. I think that food can be really stressful for people. So, I’m glad that your book is addressing, like, you know, it’s very, like you said, holistic. You’re talking about sleep and about stress and about, you know, exercise and food and that, I think my advice — no one’s asking me but I’m giving it — is always like, food has been very stressful for me, because of my pre-existing GI issues. Like, I had a reflux since I was, you know, like a teenager. That was like the first kind of thing I ever got diagnosed with, it’s just acid reflux.
But, and so, I kind of had some fear around food for a while, right. It’s like, certain foods are bad and certain foods are good. And so, I think, holding it with like, approaching dietary or nutritional intervention for arthritis, for me, it I recommend — or kind of not recommend, but I encourage people to approach it with a kind of a curiosity. Like, let’s see. Instead of like a maniacal like, “I have to eat this.”
Emily:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, definitely. And I think, as I said earlier, what works for one person might not work for another and it is about finding it out for yourself, but also that it is that holistic approach. And don’t be too stressed if you can’t eat perfectly every day, because that’s not achievable. So, also, don’t set yourself up for failure. You know, you’ve got to be kind to yourself as well. And, you know, so I would also emphasize that too, because, hey, you know what, sometimes you can’t do it all. So, you know, you’ve got, yeah, you’ve really got to be kind to yourself in that way. And I actually talk about like an 80/20 approach. And so, you know, if I’m good 80% of the time, that 20% doesn’t make too much difference. So, you know, if I want to, you know, enjoy a night out with my friends and I don’t get home till, you know, two hours past my bedtime, which would actually affect me pain wise and tiredness wise and everything else, I just go okay, well, okay, that’s just this week, that’s fine. And it’s the same with food and everything else. It’s about getting that balance right, and yeah, being kind to yourself.
Cheryl:
I love that. And I just think that you have too many people in the beginning stages, they get very wrapped up in like finding the solution, the one diet. Or like, “Oh, that worked for her. So, it must work for me,” and so yeah, I am glad, I’m glad that your resource is really like, you know, approach is knowing that what works for what might not work for another. Maybe you’ll try vegetarian version and you’re still kind of feeling inflamed. Maybe then try the vegan version, maybe that’ll help you feel better and maybe try some, you know, getting some protein, maybe you need more protein, you know. There’s just, it’s a constant kind of up.
And I’ve definitely, like, started enjoying, you know, food more now that I do know, okay, so here are some of my reliable, you know, triggers like. A lot of times people think of the food is like, okay, I want to make the bad stuff go away, like make the pain go away, because maybe there’s a food that’s triggering pain. But I also think of it as, you can think of it at least like a reinforcement schedule thing from behavioral psychology. It’s like, do you want to make a bad thing go away? Or do you want to make a good thing occur? Right? Isn’t that interesting?
Emily:
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Focus on the good stuff.
Cheryl:
Yeah, focus on like, giving yourself a positive benefit of it. Like, this will give me more energy. Like, I know, Jenifer, who’s like @chronicpain.nutritionist, she talks a lot about like, making sure you give yourself some, you know, healthy fats, and stuff in a complex carbohydrate in the morning and to give energy as opposed to saying, “Oh, don’t have the bad food that’s going to make you have pain,” you know.
Emily:
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think, you know, when I first started this journey, it was a huge overhaul on my diet, and what I was actually doing that I did feel a little bit like a fish out of water. I felt like oh, God, like, you know, I can’t have this, I can’t have that, you know, that’s gonna make me ill, that’s gonna make me have no pain, that’s gonna make me… And then, just as you just said that I was like, gosh, I then I really did start to turn my thinking around, because I started to feel better.
And I was like, wait, if I eat more of this, I’m going to feel like this. And if I eat more of this, I’m going to feel like this. And it starts to make me feel more encouraged. And so, yeah, if you think of it as this view, nourishing yourself and taking care of yourself, that is the best way to look at it, rather than this is changing my life and it’s, you know, spoiling, you know, my enjoyment. No, see it as it’s giving you enjoyment, because it’s making you feel good.
Cheryl:
I love that. Yeah. That is that’s just kind of how my brain works. Like, I guess there’s people that are seeking pleasure versus avoiding pain. Yeah, we all go through phases of both. But yeah.
Emily:
Definitely. Yeah, absolutely.
Cheryl:
Well, and the other just kind of follow up question just about – I’m curious about what it was like to write a book, because I know a lot of patients, you know, including myself, it’s like, “Oh, one day I want to write a book,” you know, like, I It’s a very mystical process in my head, like, how do you actually write a book? Like, is it just, do you just write it? And then like, how did the process go for you?
Emily:
So — gosh, I don’t know where to start. I could start with the crowdfunding campaign that I did. So, I am — actually, I could go even further back than that. I was on holiday. I was on holiday with my friends and we were chatting. We went to a yoga class, it was like a meditation mindfulness thing for my birthday. And there’s a lady sat there at the vegan brunch after. And she was talking about how she published a book. And I previously said to my friend, Rachel, I talked about this in the book as well in the acknowledgments. I previously said to Rachel, “Oh, do you know what, maybe I could one day write a book, you know, for our Arthritis Foodie, and it could help people,” and I sort of quietly said it to her, and to close friends and family. And anyway, we were sat around this table and this girl called Jacqueline starts talking about how she’s published a book, how it’s going really well, and she’s American. And she was just like, yeah, it’s an amazing experience. And I was sat there going, Oh, my God. That’s so cool. Like, you know, I want to do that. And then my friend Rachel did it for me. She was like, “Emily wants to write a book!” at the table.
Cheryl:
You have good friends. A lot of these stories are like, your friend was really nice to you.
Emily:
Yeah, super sweet. Yeah. And she was like, “My friend, Emily, she wants to write book! Emily, tell her about your book idea.” And so, I did. And then Jacqueline was like, “Oh, I use this thing called Publishizer. And I crowdfunded my book and then off the back of that, they pitch you to publishers, and then publishers get in touch with you. And it sort of raises awareness, it shows that people are interested in your idea and your brand or you know, your book, et cetera.” So, I was like, oh, okay, cool. Yeah, maybe I’ll try that. So, off the back of that I set a Publishizer campaign, and crowdfunded for the book. So, anyone who like pre ordered back then, I was sending them copies only just back last year, so they had to wait a couple years for it.
And yeah, off the back of that, I sort of, yeah, got different reach outs from different publishers. And I was like, oh, gosh, I don’t know where to take this and who to go with, and then sort of organically bumped into Doctors Kitchen. And then he was like, “Emily, I’ve heard about what you’re doing,” and I sort of explained about what I was doing. And then he put me in touch with one of his contacts, and then it sort of went from there. But if I hadn’t done the crowdfunding and sort of shown that there was an interest, then it would have been a lot harder to pitch my book. And then I pitched my book to the editor of Yellow Kite, and he basically took a chance on me because at that point, I’ve not even written anything. All I’d done was the pitch. And she was, yeah, she sort of had a lot of confidence in me and said to me, “I think there’s really something here and you could help a lot of people and, you know, we’re behind you,” which was, which was great. So then, so then, yeah, I started writing it. I spent my weekends in the library researching and, and starting to put a skeletal form together for the chapters. And, yeah, I mean, yeah, it was, it was — it was a crazy time, because also then the pandemic kit. And so, because it was, yeah, March 2020 that I got my, yeah, I’ve got my final sign off of the offer letter.
Cheryl:
Oh, my gosh. March 2020.
Emily:
Yeah, yeah. So, I pitched my book in January 2020. January 2020? Yeah. No, it was just before Christmas, it was Christmas 2019 that I pitched my book to her, discussion, sort of January, February, and we finally got the offer letter March 2020. And the pandemic hit. And I was like, Oh, my God, is this still gonna end up happening? But I ended up going on furlough. So, what I meant by that was, I could use that time to write my book, and not worry about rent and everything. I was very, very, very lucky and very, very grateful for that time. And so, I could spend my days writing the book basically during lockdown when nothing was open, and I also couldn’t go out because I was shielding. And so, it actually gave me a lot of purpose when I couldn’t, yeah, when the whole world was crumbling. Quite unique, a unique story of how I got my book written and yeah, became an author. But yeah.
Cheryl:
No, that’s — I’m sure everyone listening or most people listening are really inspired by that, you know, and I actually didn’t know you only had arthritis, or I’d forgotten if I knew at one point that you’d only you’ve had it for eight years now. Yeah. So, you know, it’s like you don’t, you know, I mean, that is a long time to some people, but it’s also like, you learn a lot, you know, every year you have it. Especially if you’re actively like researching and, you know, trying out different things on your own body, you know, so hopefully, that’s also inspiring to people to realize, like, “Oh, wow, if I just got diagnosed, like, maybe I’ll, you know, be like a, be like a leader in the arthritis community,” you know what I mean, at some point. That’s really exciting.
Emily:
Yeah, no, 100%. You know, and it’s something that I’m so passionate about, and I think passion takes you a long way. It just does. Because when you care about something, and you and you want to help people it just, you know, yeah, I think that also is something to be said for. Yeah.
Cheryl:
Yeah, and like some people aren’t comfortable with writing or maybe don’t want to share on social media, but there’s so many different ways you can be actively engaged in, you know, taking your — turning your pain into your purpose, you know, and making something from it.
Emily:
Definitely, definitely. Even if it’s like joining the community online and helping support groups and commenting and helping people that way, you know, whatever it is, even if it’s small, it actually does give you a lot of joy as well to sort of, yeah, like you said, turn your pain into purpose. But yeah, the book, the final manuscript was so long. It was like 90,000 words. And I did so much research, like more than I actually ended up going into the book. It was too much, and had to sort of edit it, edit it and yeah, and then ended up with a book that it is now. But yeah, yeah, it was a really unique and yeah, exciting journey and I’m very, very grateful. But yeah, definitely don’t give up on if you want to be an author, if you, you know, if you’ve got an idea, don’t give up on it and just keep going because, you know, it will happen hopefully, if you one day — I know, I’ve forgotten her name… Is Morgan Harper Nichols?
Cheryl:
I don’t remember.
Emily:
Oh, no, sorry. I’ll skip that bit. [Laughs]
Cheryl:
Oh, my gosh. My free recall memory is just dismal. Yeah.
Emily:
Yeah, I’m trying. Is it —? Basically this a writer of Noughts and Crosses? And she was on, she was on TV. And she was saying that she pitched her book for years, for years, and it took hundreds and hundreds of like, it took hundreds of publishers to finally get the book published. Right. You know, and you hear these stories of books, you know, being ready, but publishers not taking them on. But then one day someone will take that chance on you. So that, you know, keep going.
Cheryl:
Yeah, no, that’s great. I feel like you’re paying it forward. But the woman that inspired you to wrote it, write your book. It’s like now I’m like, oh, I feel inspired to do it. Yeah. I mean, there’s just so — yeah, I have a problem with just wanting to do too many things, though. So, part of my illness management is being like, “Deep breath, like one thing at a time.” Like, don’t over commit yourself. You know, you’re doing a podcast, and you’re teaching a support group, and an online course, and you’re doing videos.
Emily:
Oh, my gosh. And you have a family.
Cheryl:
Yeah. And I have family. And my little puppy. Yeah, no, but no, thank you. This is so, so helpful. And, you know, one of my favorite questions to ask anyone who comes on the podcast is — and, again, just speaking as a patient — is what any words of encouragement or advice, generally speaking, not medical advice, do you have for someone newly diagnosed who might be in that state that you described so beautifully earlier? And just thought like, “I don’t know what just happened and what to do. And I’m overwhelmed”?
Emily:
Yeah. So, the first thing I would say is, take a deep breath, be kind to yourself, you always have to be kind to yourself, and just know that you’re not going to know everything at once. And it’s going to take some time. And don’t try and absorb everything. Because if you absorb all these different things from different support groups from different, you’re Googling loads of different things, it can feel overwhelming. And also, it can make you feel really sad about having the diagnosis. And allow yourself that time to be sad, be kind to yourself, and just know that it is going to take, is going to take time, and you’re not going to know everything overnight. And that you are the best advocate for your health. You know your body, you know who you are, you know what it’s like to live in your body every day. Nobody else does. Nobody else knows. Nobody else knows but you. So therefore, you really have to advocate for yourself. That’s what I would say. So, if you’re on a medication, and the rheumatologist is like, “You know what? This has worked for so many people, I think it’s gonna work for you,” but if it’s not working for you, that’s okay. You know, I think it’s going, “I know my own body. I know my own mind. And I know how I’m feeling.” And this is not medical advice, but I’m just saying, you know, when you’re in those spaces, it can feel like you aren’t in control, which is what I say in this book, if it feels like you aren’t in control, but there are little ways that you can have control of your life, you know. What you eat, what exercise you do, the sleep you have, you know, that kind of stuff. So, being the best advocate you can for your own health is another bit of advice. That was quite a lot.
Cheryl:
No, that’s —
Emily:
Hopefully helpful.
Cheryl:
I think it is. And I think what you said about control is something I’ve been thinking about a lot lately. I recently just like drew out on a Post-It note like kind of three circles. They’re not like a Venn diagram, but it’s like a little circle and then a bigger circle around it, and then the biggest circle. And it’s like, there’s the middle part, the small circle is like things I can control, like for sure control. And then the outer circle is like things I for sure can’t control. And then the middle one is like messy middle, you know, grey area, right?
Yeah, I can control like, when I go into my bed, you know, and my wind down routine. I can’t necessarily — I can control like maybe if I listen to calming music or something, but I can’t actually like make my brain go to sleep. But I know there are people who, hypnotists who can. You know, so it’s like separating — like, I can control like the words I say.
Like, someone asked me the other day, “How do you make other people understand your arthritis?” And I was like, well, you have to separate what you can control what you can’t. You control the words you say, how often you say them, the resources you direct people to but you cannot control their brain understanding. So, you can’t make someone, you know? So, I think, yeah, it’s so helpful to have resources to help us figure out, sort through, and sift through is this controllable or not, you know, is it something I can let go — maybe not let go of, but maybe work around like, you know. So, sorry. That’s my — I’ve been obsessing over this like visual —
Emily:
Yeah, no, 100%. Because I think as well, when you live with arthritis, there’s always, no matter how long you’re in a remission for or how long it is till your next remission or whatever, you just don’t know what’s going to happen next. So, that can feel really like you’re out of control. Like, what happened to me, I thought I was getting better, and then I didn’t, and then, you know, it went somewhere else. And then it’s completely up and down, and tipsy turvy and that kind of stuff.
You’ve just got to accept that that’s what arthritis is. And you’ll have flare ups, you’ll have good days and bad days. Even now, there are certain days I have way more pain than I do normally, you know, but I live with that chronic pain. I’m not, I’m not not in pain, it’s just days where it’s higher and lower than others. And, you know, and it’s managing that. So, I think, yeah, it’s so important to know that you can’t control everything. But just take ownership in the little things that you maybe can, you know?
Cheryl:
It’s so empowering. It’s like, I get, it’s almost like I think of it as like a paradox that it’s, of course, it’s empowering to know what you can’t control. Because I can control what I put in my kitchen, and like how I cook it, and how much of it I eat, but I can’t necessarily control like if my body is like, has a reaction to like bell peppers or whatever. But also like, also, from the standpoint of, like, the acceptance piece, you would think, “Oh, but then like, accepting the things you can’t control must be depressing,” or like, but it actually is empowering to be like, not just say, “I accept these things.” But like, I have the tools to cope with the things I can’t control, like the Serenity Prayer, you know, “Give me the courage to accept the things I cannot change and the wisdom to know the difference,” you know. That overlapping circle that I thought I created is not new. Like, we’re all just kind of trying to make sense of these diseases and how to live with them and how to, you know, live a good life. And I think it is empowering to say that like, yes, some days, I might, and I hear this a lot, you probably hear this too, “I did everything right. And I still didn’t feel good.”
Emily:
I still didn’t feel good. Yeah, that happens. That happens. And you can go, “Okay. Today is a bad day. But tomorrow’s a new one. And we start again.” And you just, yeah, you’ve got to, you got to be kind to yourself. I’ve said that more than once. But, you know, you can really feel like hating your body and beating yourself up about not feeling good. You know, I used to look at my hands and go, oh, I just want to hand transplant. I just want someone to change my hands off —
Cheryl:
I’ve thought of that. But I’ve always thought of it as my whole body. Yeah, because of all those like, stomach issues and yeah, I was just like, can I have a head transplant? Can I transplant my head to someone else’s body?
Emily:
So, it’s almost like going and sort of like almost hating your own body. But actually, you’ve got to love it because you only got one. And, you know, I know, yeah, it’s hard to think about, but you’ve just got to make living in your body the best place to be no matter what that is, and just accepting that some days it won’t be the best place to be, but it’s not going to always be like that.
Cheryl:
Yeah, the future is unknowable. And yeah, this is the body that you get, like, you know, I could spend all my life wishing her to be different, you know, but this is the only life I get as far as I am – my philosophy of life is there’s no afterlife in my knowledge. So, you know, I don’t — or if there is I don’t have any control over that. So, I’m just going to focus on what I know, that this is THE Life!
Emily:
Yeah, in the present moment. Yeah.
Cheryl:
We’re very wise.
Emily:
[Laughs]
Cheryl:
I’m so glad this is being recorded.
Emily:
We try, we try.
Cheryl:
I’m so glad this is recorded. Well, thank you so much. I really — I really appreciate it and just, I’m gonna put all your links online or on the show notes. But can you let everyone know where they — what your hand is?
Emily:
Yeah, of course. So, my handle is @ArthritisFoodie. That’s F-O-O-D-I-E. And the book is ‘Beat Arthritis Naturally’. It’s out in the UK already. It’s availably — availably? It’s available globally on Book Depository, but it’s out in the US. I’ve got my little US flag. On the 15th of March 2022 it’s out, which is next week, actually. It’s out in the US. So, yeah. Please buy it. If you do, let me know how you get on with it and if you like it or not. Yeah. And also, if you don’t want to buy it, don’t buy it. But it’s resource. It’s a resource if you want it, so.
Cheryl:
Yeah, I love it. I’m so glad you took the time to come on the podcast. I know. You’re very busy right now, you know, promoting the book and you have a job on top of that. That’s just, I mean, it’s a lot.
Emily:
Yeah, it’s a lot. It’s a lot. Yeah.
Cheryl:
No, but I appreciate it.
Emily:
I’m very, very happy to be on this podcast, Cheryl, and I love all of the work that you do. I think you’re a brilliant advocate for everybody living with arthritis. And yeah, and you’re wonderful. So, I’m so glad to be here.
Cheryl:
Yeah, no. And every time someone says, “Oh, social media, you know, ooh, that’s not good for patients. They just, they just give each other misinformation.” I’m always like, you know, there’s so many wonderful people I would never have met if it wasn’t for social media.
Emily:
Yes. Oh, my gosh. Absolutely. That make you feel less alone and make you feel normal. Yeah, 100%.
Cheryl:
Yeah, or even like Dr. Micah Yu who I know did, you know, medically reviewed your book. He was on the — I had him on the podcast, you know, tapping into his wisdom and having him share his story. And, you know, so, anyway, I’m just, yeah, I feel very lucky that social media has led me to so many, you know, wonderful people who I learned so much from and so, yeah. So, thank you again!
Emily:
Oh, thank you so much, Cheryl, for having me.
[Ending music]
Thank you so much for listening to today’s episode. This episode is brought to you by Rheum to THRIVE, a membership and support community where you’ll learn how to develop your own THRIVE toolbox so you can live a full life despite your rheumatic disease or chronic illness. Learn more in the show notes, or by going to www.myarthritislife.net. You can also connect with me on my social media accounts on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and even TikTok. Check out the links in the show notes.
