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Podcast

The Power of Creativity and Storytelling in Alison’s Chronic Illness Journey

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Summary:

On episode 157 of The Arthritis Life Podcast, Alison shares her ups and downs of living with inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) and ankylosing spondylitis (AS) as a mom, teacher and writer. She and Cheryl reflect on how they talk to their children about chronic illness, and Alison shares the crucial role of creativity in her coping toolbox.

Alison and Cheryl also explore the impact of the pandemic on rediscovering creative passions and the power of storytelling in raising awareness. Alison’s new children’s book, Kenzie’s Little Tree, is not only a meaningful read but also a way to support arthritis and chronic illness foundations.  

If you’re newly diagnosed, this conversation offers reassurance, practical tips, and a reminder that you’re not alone in this journey. 

Episode at a glance:

  • Alison’s Diagnosis story: Alison shares how she got diagnosed with AS after the birth of her child
  • Creative Outlets & Chronic Illness: How writing, reading, and creative hobbies help manage symptoms and mental well-being.
  • Practical Comfort and Pain Relief Tools: Favorite small but effective tools like heating pads, cushions, and ergonomic adjustments.
  • Navigating Life Post-Diagnosis: The emotional impact of an IBD and ankylosing spondylitis diagnosis and finding ways to adapt.
  • The Power of Storytelling: How Alison’s book, Kenzie’s Little Tree, raises awareness and supports chronic illness communities.
  • Finding Connection & Support: Encouragement for those newly diagnosed, emphasizing that they’re not alone in this journey.

Medical disclaimer: 

All content found on Arthritis Life public channels was created for generalized informational purposes only. The content is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

Episode Sponsors

Rheum to THRIVE, an online course and support program Cheryl created to help people with rheumatic disease go from overwhelmed, confused and alone to confident, supported and connected. See all the details and join the program or waitlist now! 

Speaker Bios:

Alison McGauley’s bio: Alison McGauley is a special education teacher and author who aims to create books with big heart for little readers. As a person living with AS and IBD, Alison is passionate about writing stories that speak to children and caregivers who are impacted by illness or disability. She also loves creating books that feature humor, SEL, and the natural world. When she’s not teaching, reading, or writing, Alison adventures in local forests and trails with her family. She resides in Ontario, Canada, with her partner, two daughters, and Ragdoll cat.

Cheryl Crow

Cheryl is an occupational therapist who has lived with rheumatoid arthritis for nineteen years. Her life passion is helping others with rheumatoid arthritis figure out how to live a full life despite arthritis, by developing tools to navigate physical, emotional and social challenges. She formed the educational company Arthritis Life in 2019 after seeing a huge need for more engaging, accessible, and (dare I say) FUN patient education and self-management resources.

Episode links:

Full Episode Transcript:

[00:00:00] Cheryl:

I’m so excited today to have an author and someone with lived experience of inflammatory arthritis named Alison McGauley on the Arthritis Life podcast. Welcome!

[00:00:10] Alison:

Hi, Cheryl. Thanks so much for having me on the Arthritis Life podcast. I’ve listened to lots of episodes and I love learning from your guests and being inspired by them. So, it’s really exciting to be here myself today.

[00:00:21] Cheryl:

Yeah. That wonderful. I know. And, by the way, I’ll put it, I should be putting this link at the end. For anyone who wants to come on the podcast, I have a little like application form just so that I can vet the person to make sure they’re not trying to like sell some sort of, you know, weird thing. Like, I want to share my story, AKA like sell my snake oil, but yeah, I love when people who are like fans of the podcast want to come on and share their story. That’s awesome. And so, can you let the listeners, of which you are one, where do you live and what is your relationship to arthritis?

[00:00:57] Alison:

Definitely. So, I’m a mom, a part-time special education teacher, and a picture book author, as you said. I live in Ontario, Canada, about an hour from Toronto, with my partner, two daughters, and our ragdoll cat. And I have IBD, specifically ulcerative colitis. I also have ankylosing spondylitis, called AS for short. And apparently, IBD-related arthropathy is what my rheumatologist, that’s what it’s called.

[00:01:27] Cheryl:

Yeah. Yeah. And by the time this episode comes out, we will have had a couple more episodes actually with people with IBD or irritable bowel disease, which is different than irritable bowel syndrome, like IBS, right. And there is a very big relationship between IBD and other forms of inflammatory arthritis which most people don’t know about. So, I’m glad that, you know —

[00:01:50] Alison:

I mean, it seems to be pretty common, yeah, from what I’ve heard.

[00:01:54] Cheryl:

Yeah. And so, I would love to hear more about your diagnosis journey/saga, as we often call it for both, you know, IBD and ankylosing spondylitis, like which came first and was it an easy path to diagnosis or kind of a rocky road, or a mixture?

[00:02:14] Alison:

Well, with the dual diagnosis, the IBD started first. So, I’ll start there. It was around my late twenties. I got sick with a stomach flu and the symptoms kind of went on and on. After visiting my family doctor, he referred me to a GI doctor who did a scope and then eventually diagnosed ulcerative colitis. And when I first found out, it was pretty devastating. I was young. I just remember like trying to get to my car before crying. I couldn’t believe that I had this chronic illness, that no one in my immediate family had it. I had, I think, a second cousin who had it. So, I knew a little bit about it, but I didn’t know her very well. 

And then, with the arthritis, the first symptom I had was intense SI joint pain. That was when I was pregnant with my first daughter. So, I thought it was just a pregnancy-related thing. So, the last few months of work, I had to take off because I could barely walk. And after I had my first daughter, the pain went. It did get significantly better, but it would sort of flare off and on with time. And then, with my second pregnancy, exact same thing happened. And then, when I had, after my second daughter was born, she was a newborn, I had this sudden flare up of my lower thumb joint. And it was really, really devastating because I couldn’t even pick her up, feed her. I was breastfeeding her at the time, like I couldn’t even hold her. So, I went to the ER.

[00:03:42] Cheryl:

Oh, sorry, I was just going to say that’s really common, even in people who don’t have an inflammatory arthritis. It’s called like, quote unquote, ‘mommy thumb’. It’s like inflammation of the CMC. 

[00:03:50] Alison:

Oh, really? 

[00:03:51] Cheryl:

Yeah, I learned about it in occupational therapy school even, but if you already have like a simmering or a full-blown inflammatory arthritis diagnosis, you’re more likely to have that mommy thumb occur from your ongoing autoimmune condition. But also, people who don’t even have a systemic disease can sometimes just get that irritation just because of all the lifting. And I mean, it’s physical labor having, taking care of a baby and a small child. So, so I also had that. 

[00:04:20] Alison:

Well, that’s interesting. Yeah, I didn’t know that that was a common thing. ‘Cause yes, 10 years ago. So, great to know. But yeah, so I went to the hospital, got some prednisone. And then, from there I was referred to a rheumatologist and but it took almost a year to get in to see her because I’m in Canada and healthcare can be so slow, so I had to wait for about a year to get in. So, then I found out, yes, I do have arthritis that’s related to the IBD, but it was sort of like intermittent. It wasn’t — sometimes I’d be fine; other times, you know, my knees would hurt for a few days. It would, kind of things would come and go and all different joints. 

And then, in about 2020. So, the SI pain that had been going off and on got worse and I also had a new mid-back pain that was quite severe and that was something new. Even I remember even like laying down when I’d be in pain, like, I could there was nothing that I did that didn’t hurt my back. So, I just did a lot of — so that was during the pandemic of course so I was using a TENS machine. I noticed that walking helped a lot. I was doing a lot of the pain cream and everything, and heating pad and So, then at that point I had a rheumatologist so she sent me for MRIs and then diagnosed me with the AS. Yeah. And that was pretty upsetting too.

[00:05:39] Cheryl:

Yeah. And I just want to say for anyone listening, I wanted to make sure to define what the SI joint is. Cause you mentioned earlier, SI, that’s like sacroiliac joints, like lower back. So, just in case people don’t know, I just try to like define the, yeah, there’s so many acronyms. I always forget what TENS stands for. Transcutaneous electrical neural stimulation, I believe it is, but it’s a pain management technique, but sorry, but you were talking about the actual like emotional response to the diagnosis, which is, I’m sure, huge.

[00:06:13] Alison:

Yeah. So, it’s just, well, and it was interesting because even though like I had lived with IBD for quite a few years at that point, and, you know, come to terms with that, but then I had read about AS before getting diagnosed. And I just remember thinking, oh, you know, you read all the things and thinking, I really hope it’s not this, because this, this sounds really bad. And then, it was that. So, I was pretty upset and I just, I didn’t want to talk about it for a while. I just remember, you know, not wanting to tell friends like that had another diagnosis and get all into the details because it was just really upsetting when I talked about it.

[00:06:49] Cheryl:

Yeah.

[00:06:49] Alison:

I just wanted to live in denial for a little bit on that one.

[00:06:52] Cheryl:

That’s a protective mechanism. Yeah, your brain’s trying to protect you by saying, let’s not think about this right now. Was your IBD at the time pretty active or was it under control, just out of curiosity?

[00:07:05] Alison:

Well, not, I was not in a huge flare, no. It was fairly in remission, maybe, you know, very mild; I’d say mild.

[00:07:17] Cheryl:

And how old were your kids?

[00:07:20] Alison:

So, when I got — so with the AS? The A. S. was about five years ago, so about five and seven.

[00:07:30] Cheryl:

Okay. Okay. So, yeah, they weren’t as much at the age where you still need to pick them up and stuff all the time, but it’s hard no matter what. I’m just, I’m just trying to imagine. 

[00:07:40] Alison:

Well, and then just knowing, because I had the SI joint pain when I was pregnant, I’m sure that I, you know, I had it for years before that. It was just that — and as a lot of people say with AS that it usually takes quite a few years to actually get diagnosed with it. So, I’m pretty sure that that, the pregnancy pain was part of it because I did have SI joint pain off and on for years. It would just, it would flare for a while. And then, it would just go away. So, I would just kind of, I was just used to it coming and going. So, I didn’t really think I could do much about it.

[00:08:13] Cheryl:

Yeah, totally understandable. And so, what are some of the — I’m now saying this, I’ve changed my questions a little bit and ’cause talking about your treatment journey would probably take a really, really long time. So, I’ve started to say, what are some of the highlights and the low lights of your treatment journey, you know, for AS, but and IBD, you know, anything you want to share about that?

[00:08:37] Alison:

Sure. Well, when I was first diagnosed with IBD, I was young and I hadn’t really taken medications before. So, I was very resistant to taking medication. So, I tried doing the, try to control a diet for about a year, gluten free, dairy free, sugar free everything. So, that was quite difficult. It didn’t help much, helped a little bit, but not much. So, I eventually started a 5-ASA medication. It worked well enough. I still had ups and downs. Had to take prednisone a few times for some flares for a few years. 

And then, about five years ago, I had the worst flare I’ve had, which was the closest I came to having surgery. At that point, I was hospitalized. And then, we did Remicade as sort of the last resort before surgery. And luckily Remicade helped. I had a lot of side effects with that, so then I switched to another medication, another biologic. It’s called Entyvio, and that is mostly absorbed in the gut, so it was really good for IBD. But then, once I got diagnosed with the AS, I had to switch to another biologic because we needed a biologic that would cover both of the chronic illnesses. So, I switched to Simponi which I’m still taking now. So, I’m still doing that and then just doing some supplements and exercises and stuff that I find help for me.

[00:10:01] Cheryl:

Yeah, and I mean, I think it’s, first of all, for people listening who aren’t familiar with, you know, IBD, it is fascinating that even though you would consider one is like a GI condition and one is a joint condition, that’s just face value. Actually, deep down, there are similar conditions where your immune system is faulty in that it’s mistaken, it’s mistakenly attacking the wrong part of your body. So, in the case of like AS, it’s your joints in your back initially, and that leads to like systemic effects. And in the case of IBD, it’s like the tissues in your GI system. 

And I think a lot of people are surprised when they learn that, oh, you can take Remicade for IBD only, not regardless if you have any joint involvement and it can work for that. So, your story is like an illustration of that. But it’s hard, it’s hard to come to terms with needing medication. Was there anything that helped you take that leap to take Remicade or was it more just like we are in such a survival mode right now, we’re just going to throw whatever. You know what I’m saying?

[00:11:05] Alison:

Yeah. I was in the hospital for 10 days. I had like diarrhea, like, at least 12 times a day. I had lost a lot of weight, so it was just like, I, you know, I need something. I didn’t wanna have surgery, obviously, so yeah. It was — and prednisone had worked really well before for me. So, and then, it just didn’t work anymore as that happens for people. So, yeah, there wasn’t really any other, anything else to take at that point.

[00:11:38] Cheryl:

Well, and when, if people don’t know, again, with surgery for IBD is typically like an ostomy, right? And episode that’s going to come out a little bit — oh, my gosh, let me get organized. But the episode is going to come out at a similar time as this. I have to get out my other like little cheat sheet to remember when things are coming out. It’s going to talk about Tina. Yeah. Right before yours, actually. That’s perfect. Tina Omprakash, who has ulcerative colitis. She has an ostomy and talks about, you know, it was very helpful for her. It’s not like, it’s not the thing most people are most excited about sometimes but, you know, you can live really well with that. Like, it’s like a surgery where your poop, instead of coming out, you know, your anus, like normal, it’s come, like typical, it comes out in a little bag and you have to change that bag and stuff like that.

[00:12:31] Alison:

Right, in the abdomen, yeah.

[00:12:33] Cheryl:

Yeah. And that’s just to most people who don’t have experience with it, it’s like, wow, that’s really kind of, be really tough to deal with. But so, it’s crazy. Or that’s, what’s surprising about these conditions is you don’t realize how tough you can be until tough is your only choice, right. I didn’t make that up. I saw that on like Instagram somewhere.

[00:12:49] Alison:

I like it.

[00:12:51] Cheryl:

Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, this is a lot, obviously, to cope with the pain in your back and switching on the medications and stuff. And, you know, one of the things that, that we talked about before starting to record, and one of the ways I found, you know, your work is through, the importance of creativity and having creative outlets that can help with coping, you know. So, how did you start, or have you always been like an artistic person, like interested in like children’s books and stuff like that? Or, I’m sorry, this is like nine questions in one. Tell me about the role — here we go — the role of creativity.

[00:13:29] Alison:

The creativity world. Yes. Well, yeah, as a kid, I loved being creative. I loved, you know, just going up to my room, doing my thing; sewing, drawing, writing stories, writing songs and poems, all that stuff. Then after high school, I was really busy with university. Then I went to teacher’s college, learning the ropes of being a teacher, which is a lot. And I mean, it has its creativity in its own right because you’re creatively planning lessons, but nothing for, you know, my own personal enjoyment creativity. And then, once I was diagnosed with IBD, I just focused so much of my time on, you know, this. So, I went on the special diet for a full year. So, that was so time consuming. I did so much research. I was constantly sourcing out ingredients, making things. So, it was just very busy. And then, all the appointments and everything, alternative therapies. 

And then, after that, I had young children, which as we know, there’s no time for anything. So, fast forward to the pandemic again, as most of us did, I had a lot of extra time during the pandemic, not going anywhere. And I had a growing need to fill myself up with something creative. My girls were a little bit older by that point. One night, I wrote a poem. And then, from there, I just started thinking about, you know, what genres am I really interested in? Being an elementary teacher and then just my whole life, I’ve loved picture books. So, I decided, okay, I’m going to try this. 

So, I took a course. And I met some really amazing and inspiring creators and I just continued learning. I took more courses, and just kept working at it. And started writing. So, I’m much busier now than I used to be before I started writing and sometimes it’s overwhelming and exhausting and I need a break, but I’m just a lot more fulfilled. Actually, my gut feels better, too. Thinking about plot lines and problems in my story keeps my mind active and distracts me from back pain and health and also my health-related worries.

[00:15:28] Cheryl:

Oh, my gosh, that’s so, you encapsulate that so beautifully because I do think that when you get really involved in a hobby or a passion, like for me, one of mine is swing dancing. And you know, sometimes it does, it is exhausting. Sometimes it does make you in the moment, like, a little bit more like busy or more overwhelmed, but then long-term that is fulfilling, you know, filling your cup and giving you a purpose. And I’m just, you know, I love picture books as well. I’m one of those people who’s like, I wanna write a book someday, too. So, you’re, you’re inspiring me. And, but I wanna talk, yeah, I wanna give you a chance to share with not just me, but the audience here, a little bit more about the book. A lot of people want to write a book. But not everyone actually does it, so you actually did it.

[00:16:19] Alison:

Yeah, it’s one of those things that everyone’s like, I’ve always wanted to do that. Yeah, so it’s hard to actually say, okay, I’m gonna do this thing and pursue it, yes.

[00:16:28] Cheryl:

And so, Kenzie’s Little Tree is your book. I would love to hear just the whole story of how you came up with the idea, what it’s been like and all that.

[00:16:37] Alison:

Definitely. All right. As you said, it’s called Kenzie’s Little Tree. It’s a picture book. It’s illustrated by Emilie Leduc and published by Orca Book Publishers, and it hits shelves soon on March 11th, 2025. In the story, little Kenzie and her family plant a fragile tree in their yard one summer day, and she promises to keep it safe. Only when fall and winter weather flare, along with her mom’s chronic illness, Kenzie worries that her promise will be broken. 

Kenzie’s little tree reminds us that though the world is constantly changing, and oftentimes difficult, we can be bold and strong, just like the little tree. And I’m super excited for this book to be out in the world and in the hands of kids. I’ve also written a family discussion guide in collaboration with a psychologist that I hope will be a helpful tool to guide conversations about experiences, thoughts, and feelings. And also, a teacher’s guide with lesson plans to accompany the book. And they’re all available in my Linktree or on the Orca Book Publishers website.

[00:17:37] Cheryl:

And I’m going to put links to all these in the show notes, which are always on the Arthritis Life website, by the way. So, just so you know, you can scroll down to the bottom of the episode description for each, regardless if you’re on Apple podcasts wherever you’re listening, you can scroll down to the show notes and they’ll have a link there. But sorry, continue. Yeah. I love that you have a family discussion guide and a teacher discussion guide. That’s awesome.

[00:18:01] Alison:

Yeah, because I think it’s just the book, it lends itself really well to both because it’s an important book for families, for families that live with chronic illness, and also for families that don’t because it also deals with change and just difficult, difficult scenarios or experiences for children, that it could bring out a lot of discussions. 

And then, it’s also a really good fit for the classroom because it has tie ins with this, it goes through a full year. So, we have science tie ins with the seasons. And then, I have a writing lesson where, because in the book, Kenzie does a lot of — each season, she does like a fun act each Saturday. It’s their family is for family adventures. So, they do fun family stuff together. So, there’s a little writing activity for kids about what fun adventure do you like to do with your family and just some reading tie ins as well, so.

[00:18:53] Cheryl:

Yeah, I think, I mean, I think, I’ve said on the podcast before that, you know, there’s such a need for disability representation in all sorts of media, TV shows, movies, books. And the sooner we can have that representation in a child’s life, the better. And I, one of the parts of the book I really liked — because I got an advanced copy, thank you — that, you know, you explicitly — is it okay for me to, like, I’m not going to read a part of it because I know I probably can’t read a part of it, but I’ll like summarize one of the pages.

[00:19:27] Alison:

Oh, definitely. Yeah, that’s totally fine.

[00:19:29] Cheryl:

So, like you’re, you know, there’s this, there’s a picture, the art is beautiful. There’s a picture of Kenzie hugging her mom, and the mom’s laying down and hugging, hugging her in her bed. And, it’s talking about how mom has been tired a lot. So, you’re talking about the fatigue, not just like the, you know, which is so, there’s very little representation of that. And, you know, eating bothers her belly. So, saying like, she’s having a, you know, difficulty and she’s resting a lot and taking a lot of medicine. And then, you’re, it’s really beautiful. As you talk about the colors of the medications and how they’re similar to the colors of the falling leaves. So, it’s tying into like the seasons. I’m telling you this as if you don’t know. This is obviously your book.

[00:20:10] Alison:

Yeah. I actually used to have a, I had a medication that was like a dark red, like, and then I had an orange one as well. So, it actually, that’s actually like a true story.

[00:20:18] Cheryl:

Okay. No, this is so funny. I have my beautiful, like, multicolored pillbox and I’m a big Taylor Swift fan. And there’s, I have some pills that are light blue and some are pink, like light pink. And there’s this, album called Lover, which the colors are like light, like, light pink and light blue. And I’m like, oh, my gosh.

[00:20:36] Alison:

Like pastels. Yeah.

[00:20:37] Cheryl:

Yeah. My my medications are like Lover today. And, you know, and you talk about how the child, Kenzie, talks about how she’s worried about her mother and, you know, and the mother says, “I’m stronger than I look and you’re strong too.” And then, mom gets hospitalized. And it’s like a lot of times people are afraid, like, parents are afraid of showing vulnerability in front of their children, and they think that they have to be showing strength all the time, right. But it’s so important to show that, you know, parents go through stuff too, and they persevere. And anyway, was that like a conscious choice on your part to show that? Instead of just being like, a lot of these narratives are like, and then mom, like, conquered it and then she was all better and like no one was ever sick again. And like, that’s not realistic for chronic illness.

[00:21:26] Alison:

Yeah, definitely. I wanted something that was, I wanted something as a narrative, like a story because I really connect with story. And I also, definitely, I wanted to represent it, having lived experience with it. And that was one of the big inspirations that, like, when I came back from the hospital, we didn’t talk about that time I was talking about when I was hospitalized and started taking Remicade. When I came back, my husband and I didn’t, we didn’t talk about it too much with the girls. They were pretty young. They were four and seven. But what happened was every time I would go out after that, they’d be really worried that I’d be going to the hospital again. Every time I’d have a little pain, they’d get really anxious thinking that I was going to hospital again. They just kept thinking that I was leaving because I suddenly left. 

I was just supposed to go for a test. I was just supposed to go for a scope. Then I got to the hospital in a different city and they wanted me to stay there. So, I didn’t even properly say goodbye to the girls because I thought I was like, oh, I’ll be back for dinner kind of thing. And it turned into 10 days. So, we then talked to a family therapist and we found out that repeated conversations about trauma can help children better process their emotions. So, then we started talking about it a lot and that did help. So, that was definitely one of the inspirations or reasons that I wrote the book. I wanted it to be something that shows families that it’s really important to have these discussions. It’s important for kids to be able to share that, and so I’m hoping that it does start a dialogue in that way.

[00:23:03] Cheryl:

I think, I think it definitely will. And you’re so right, the storytelling is how the young children, especially at the preschool age, I mean, how we all, how we all learn. And I remember, this is not exactly the same, but I had to, I had like three really acute health issues in the span of one year that had nothing to even do with my arthritis actually. But from a young age, I would tell my son about my arthritis. And he, and one of them was a car accident. 

And so, because this car accident happened when he was almost three-years-old for a long time, he said, remember what I used to think that the car accident gave you arthritis. He’s like, ’cause it just, it happened. Like, my arthritis was flaring up later. And in his mind, like, the kids are just trying to make sense of the world, trying to tell a story about like mommy got into car accident and then she has an owie in her hands, you know. And then, long-term, even it’s not like — he’s 10 now. So, we’ve had like multiple little conversations over the years to be like, actually, you know, car accident doesn’t give you arthritis typically, although technically —

[00:24:04] Alison:

It can. Yeah. Yeah. I have a friend who’s mom, yeah.

[00:24:05] Cheryl:

You can get osteoarthritis. Yeah. But not rheumatoid arthritis. Yeah. Or not, not inflammatory autoimmune arthritis, it doesn’t give you arthritis other than the fact that any traumatic event can spark your immune system to kind of go whack-a-doodle, but like injuries, post-injury osteoarthritis, it’s like more of a common thing. But long story short, we had to tell, you know, talk about what had happened. Talk about like, I had a owie on my bottom, not related. It was a, from a pilonidal cyst, which is like a tailbone cyst, had to get surgery there. And so, it was really hard for me to like sit or be comfortable for a long time with that. And so, like mommy had, and, you know, so we had to have all these stories around everything and so I think —

[00:24:44] Alison:

And they like to talk about it. Like, kids enjoy, they’ll, if you bring it up, they want to talk about it over and over again, and it’s interesting because you can tell that they want to talk about it So, obviously that’s something that they need to process it because they’re very willing to you know relive it, talk about it over and over again

[00:25:01] Cheryl:

Yeah, have you read the book to your children?

[00:25:05] Alison:

Oh yeah, definitely. They, yeah, they’re my biggest fans. My oldest daughter, so she always listens to all my stories and she gives great feedback actually. She’s like my first critique partner. So, yeah.

[00:25:16] Cheryl:

She’s like 12 now or —?

[00:25:18] Alison:

She just turned 13. Yeah, oy older one. My younger one’s 10. Same as your son. Yeah, so they, yeah, so they’re always hearing my stories and hearing all my ideas. So, yeah, definitely. And they, yeah, so they, they just, and the fact that it’s loosely based on our family experience. So, it’s really special that this is my debut book and it’s just, you know, obviously a really special book for our family. So, they’re very happy about it.

[00:25:45] Cheryl:

It’s so beautiful. Yeah. I noticed that I didn’t want to be like, am I projecting? ‘Cause there’s two little kids, you know, and I was like, okay, she has two kids.

[00:25:54] Alison:

Yeah. Like, it’s not a true story by any means, but it is — so, in the story, as you know, mom goes to the hospital. So, that is, yeah, that was, you know, inspired by our own experience when I went to the hospital and there’s no little tree in real life, but my daughter does love plants.

[00:26:12] Cheryl:

Oh, that’s so sweet. Yeah. And is there anything else, ’cause we kind of, I got us a little bit on a couple of different tangents, but is there anything else you wanted to say about the importance of like disability representation in picture books or just children’s literature in general?

[00:26:27] Alison:

Yeah, for sure. So, while we’re seeing a lot of more diverse picture books that represent a variety of realities and experiences, which is amazing, and I’m just I’m really honored to add to this conversation to represent kids like Kenzie, who have a chronically ill caregiver. And also, kids that have chronic illness themselves. As you said, it is an area that we need a lot more representation on. And I think it’s so powerful for young people to know that there’s other kids out there that have similar experiences, thoughts, and feelings. 

And I hope that in seeing this, they’ll be empowered to, and open to having more conversations. And I’m also working on some other manuscripts that feature children that have chronic illness and I hope that someday these will be out in the world too because I think it’s really powerful for a child to see a character in a book who’s going through a similar experience to them.

[00:27:16] Cheryl:

Yeah, yeah. And I just, I really love what you said about like getting everything out in the open, because if we, a lot of parents are afraid. I don’t want to tell my kid about what I’m going through because I don’t want to scare them. Well, like, life is scary period. This is my little soapbox. So, it’s like, you can either talk about it or not. Like, and if you don’t talk about it with your kid, like, that bad things can happen to good people. And like, then they’re going to just make, they’re going to try to sort through to make sense of it on their own. So, wouldn’t you as a parents rather be in the conversation with them? That’s my brain.

[00:27:48] Alison:

Well, and I feel like it’s, too, the unknown is very scary, right? So, if you don’t talk about it and it’s a secret, that also to me feels scary for a child because they’re probably imagining the worst, so. 

[00:28:00] Cheryl:

Yeah. And it’s, I felt — I often found, I don’t know if you feel as a parent, like, I feel like these two opposing urges. One is like the urge to just tell them it’s going to be okay. And like, we’re going to fix everything and solve everything. And because you want your kid, you want to relieve their anxiety. And then, there’s the dedication to the truth, which is that there’s no guarantee you can take the medicine, you could do everything in your toolbox, but sometimes you’re still going to feel bad. And like, how do you find that balance between being honest with the realities of the difficulties of your chronic illness, with also wanting to provide like a sense of hope and stability. Like, how have you balanced that? Yeah, I don’t think anyone knows.

[00:28:53] Alison:

That, yeah, that’s really, that’s a really hard question. I think also it has to do with their age, right? I mean, your 3-year-old is going to be a lot different than your 7- to 10-year-old, right? Every year, I think it’s a little different. You can tell them a little bit more. I think that’s why books like this are really important because maybe — and I’m hoping with this picture book, children do get that you leave with a sense of hope. They leave with the sense that I am strong enough. You know, things are hard, but I am strong. 

And that’s just, yeah, you’re right. There are hard things in life and we can’t just tell the children, yeah, everything, you know, I’m going to be fine. Everything’s fine. Well, no, everything’s not fine. However, we’re strong and, you know, there’s things we can do. So, yeah, it’s hard, but I do think it does change over time, the conversation that you have. And picture books are great that way in that they typically, they do deal with tough things but you leave with a sense of hope. And I think that’s sort of the same as maybe a discussion that you could have with a child where, you know, we talk about some difficult things, but we have medications, we have treatments. 

So, we do have that sense of hope. And that there’s hard times, like in the book. There’s hard times when mom has to go to the hospital and when Kenzie’s sad, but there’s also a lot of fun and joy. The fam, we see the family doing each season, they’re doing fun activities together and they love that time together. So, there’s a lot of joy. There all the feelings just like life is. That’s what I always say is I love big hearted books that have all the feelings. So, I tried to also put that in this book and in this family as well.

[00:30:45] Cheryl:

Yeah. I think that’s, I think you hit the nail on the head of like knowing things can be hard, whether it’s a chronic illness, whether it’s something else, like someone, a bully in your school or whether it’s, I don’t know, some other challenge, some challenge on your sport.

[00:31:01] Alison:

Like a learning disability or anything, right? Those are really difficult, too. 

[00:31:05] Cheryl: 

And that you can, that kind of mantra, I do a lot of, like, I mean, mantra is not in a very broad sense. Meaning like I have, like, you know, ‘We can do hard things’. It’s like on my, behind this computer. Like, I have like a poster that, you know, like, just remind —


[00:31:17] Alison:

Yeah. That’s one of our, yeah, our families, too, that we like.

[00:31:21] Cheryl:

Which, you know, and it’s, again, it’s a really, it’s a more sustainable source of hope because I think the books I don’t like are the ones again where it’s like, and then we fixed it and then they were better and then we never worried again and life, you know, it’s like, that’s just —

[00:31:37] Alison:

Yeah, not, it’s not reality. Yeah.

[00:31:39] Cheryl:

Yeah. Yeah. And so, anyway, I love the book. So, I really hope everyone checks it out. Again, I’m going to have all the links. It’s called Kenzie’s Little Tree and the illustrations are absolutely gorgeous.

[00:31:51] Alison: 

Yes, Emily did an amazing job. I’m just in awe of her because I don’t draw at all. So, I —

[00:31:59] Cheryl:

Yeah, oh.

[00:32:01] Alison:

I would not be illustrating it. Yeah. People are like, did you illustrate it? No, believe me. I would not be doing that. So, yeah.

[00:32:06] Cheryl:

Yeah. I love, like, I love drawing, but yet it’s not like my talent or whatnot, but it’s fun to just, like as an outlet. 

[00:31:14] Alison:

Yeah, that’s great. Yeah.

[00:32:16] Cheryl:

But speaking of, just, we talked initially about creativity as like a coping tool is before we go to the rapid-fire questions, is there anything else that you’d want to share about that’s in your coping toolbox? Like, you know, this could be like, like we mentioned, like mantras or things like, you know, therapy or social support or anything else that helps you cope?

[00:32:39] Alison:

Yeah. Well, what helps me cope a lot is actually my family, just knowing how much they care about me. The girls always wanting to do fun activities together and just, you know, knowing how important that is for them. I also do a lot for my stress level and anxiety. Like, I do therapy, meditation, strength training that I do with physiotherapist, walking. I walk a lot. I try to walk and pick up my kids from school every day. Also, I do a lot of reading and lots of dark chocolate is also in my mechanism.

[00:33:10] Cheryl:

Yay. Oh, my God. Me too. Yeah, that’s, yeah.

[00:33:14] Alison:

I gotta, I gotta have it every day.

[00:33:17] Cheryl:

Yeah, I was gluten free for a very, very long time. I recently I actually learned that I could reintroduce gluten because —

[00:33:23] Alison:

Oh, no. That’s a hard one.

[00:33:26] Cheryl:

I know I don’t have celiac, but for a while when I started this in the late 200s, it really, really — I have gastroparesis, which is a different GI motility disorder. And I noticed that, oh, when I avoided gluten, my GI system like was a little faster and worked better. But my dietician I was working with was like, you know, since you don’t have celiac, your gut has probably changed a lot over time. You could try, if you’re interested, just reintroducing gluten slowly, seeing how you do with it. 

And I was like, I’ve been so diligent about avoiding it for so long. And then, I was, I reintroduced it and I was like, wow. My stomach’s actually okay now. And I never even considered that. So, I’m like, knock on wood, like, so yeah, chocolate. And then, now, having some of my gluten treat, glutenous treats. But for those, I’m sorry, if those are still gluten free, I’m sorry that I’m bragging about my newfound ability to digest gluten.

[00:34:21] Alison:

Yeah. A lot of people with arthritis, too, do try the starch-free diet. And I did try it for a short amount of time, but It didn’t go well for me. And also, having also having IBD is hard because I was just having like chicken, olive oil, and grapes. That’s all I was having for a few days. And it just was like, it was too much oil. I don’t — it just bothered my gut. And then, it was, yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:50] Cheryl:

Yeah, you know, the best evidence at the population level, you know, for inflammatory arthritis is just like a Mediterranean style eating pattern, but that’s for the general, that’s a very general recommendation. Each individual is so different, especially if you have a GI comorbidity like you and I have that, you know, yeah, I couldn’t do a full Mediterranean diet because beans, you know.

[00:35:15] Alison:

Oh, yeah, I can’t do beans. I can’t do any beans. No, those are completely no. I can’t do beans or onions or garlic.

[00:35:22] Cheryl:

Me too!

[00:35:22] Alison:

Those are all off. Yeah, those are terrible.

[00:35:24] Cheryl:

Yeah, and it doesn’t, you know, it just, no dietary intervention I’ve tried has ever made a real difference in my inflammatory arthritis. And that’s just me, that exercise and stress management and sleep make a huge difference for me. So, but you might be different who listening, you know, if someone listening. So, that’s what’s hard. I have to almost, like, one of my coping tools is saying like, I, at some point, I have to just say enough. Like, I’ve done enough, and I’m good. It’s good enough. Like, I don’t want to spend my whole life maximizing my symptom control. ‘Cause the whole point of symptom control is to like live my life, you know?

[00:35:58] Alison:

Definitely. Yeah.

[00:35:59] Cheryl:

So, eat the chocolate, in conclusion.

[00:36:01] Alison:

In terms of coping. So, I also have — but I mean, I typically still have, I have joint pain. Sometimes it comes and goes. Right now, it’s in my hips, actually, sort of comes different spots. I guess that’s the arthropathy. And often have some like abdominal pain most days a little bit, and then a lot of like just back muscle tension and stuff. So, some other coping to do with that, like what I’m saying, I’m also teaching half the time, so I have a standing desk. I do a lot of standing while I teach. 

I have this table that lifts up and down and then I have, I can prop my binder on this stand that I was given by HR. So, that’s really helpful for my neck And also, when I’m writing as well, I just got a nice stand up desk so I can alternate. I like to alternate a lot between sitting and standing because I find with the a sitting a lot. Also, when I stand up my hips really hurt, so I like to do alternate a lot between sitting and standing with those kind of special desks.

[00:37:02] Cheryl:

Yeah, I honestly think that people who have these conditions should get like an honorary occupational therapy degree, because like, you know what I mean, like, that’s what an OT would tell you probably. I mean, we have more than that in our scope. But point being, like, it’s like you learn to become an expert in your own care.

[00:37:19] Alison:

Right. Well, you know, you know what hurts when you do it, right? So, it’s like, okay, well, I got to try this because sitting is not my friend anymore for too long.

[00:37:27] Cheryl:

I, yeah, I do that too. I’m constantly changing. I have it. I’m at my standing desk right now. I’m sitting at it, but I change throughout the day a lot. I try not to change in the middle of a podcast, but only because of noise and stuff. But that’s really, really helpful. You know, so moving on to the more, quote unquote, rapid-fire questions, which can be long, but yeah. you know, what are some of your best words of wisdom who’ve been newly diagnosed, you know, with IBD or AS?

[00:37:57] Alison:

Okay. Yeah. Well, this kind of goes for both. So, when we talked about food earlier and so mine would be, ’cause when I first got diagnosed, I did a lot of, you know, what works for other people. And so, I tried, you know, a lot of things that I saw online. You know, probably shouldn’t have. But so, my advice is to eat, to eat what works for you and your family, rather than try something that’s very restrictive. So, I’ve tried a lot of diet protocols. They can be really expensive and really time consuming. So, especially if you have children, it can be really difficult. And some people do find success, but I never found success with those. 

So, I would, you know, just try to figure out what actually works for you. And stick with that. And then, give yourself time to pursue a passion or creative pursuit, as this provides joy and is a great distraction from pain and thoughts about your illness. So, even though it might feel like, you know, I don’t have time, I have to do research, I have to learn about the illness, try to carve out a little bit of time for something that you love because that just mentally and physically, I find helps a lot.

[00:39:01] Cheryl:

That’s huge. And I you know I think the nutrition rabbit hole is something that I’ve talked about a lot on this podcast. But if you’re a new listener, you know, I very much agree that proceed with caution. You end up getting into this selective algorithm on social media of only success stories of people who’ve tried these diets and it worked for them. And there’s a lot of people who, you know, they get so exhausted and burned out from the things not working. They’re not going to sit there and keep making post after post after post about it not working, right? 

And so, you almost get this warped sense that this is what works for everyone which is objectively not true in the case of inflammatory arthritis in particular. I know with IBD, it’s different because it’s more, it is your digestion is like the primary thing. But I think it takes a lot of courage to say the, like, look, I spent all this time and energy and money and it didn’t work. Like, and that is a hundred percent like the way you presented it is the way I feel about it, which is, it’s not your fault, but some people feel ashamed. They feel like I must not have done it right. You know, or I must have —

[00:40:06] Alison:

Yeah, there definitely is that, yeah. You do feel, oh, well maybe I wasn’t strict enough, but it’s difficult because it’s so, yeah, you just, you get so regimented and yeah, it can be tough for sure.

[00:40:20] Cheryl:

Yeah, and it can lead to an eating disorder called orthorexia, which is where you, you know, it’s a disease where people become obsessed with only eating healthy or clean foods. And it is recognized in the DSM as an eating disorder because it is actually, it’s an unhealthy obsession with eating healthy because it’s not actually.

[00:40:41] Alison:

It probably happens a lot for people that have chronic illnesses and try, right? Like, wow, I started off trying to do a diet because you think, you know, if I really, if I work really hard at this, I can, you know, quote unquote, ‘cure’ myself or, you know, feel better without medication. But it, yeah, it didn’t happen for me and I think it’s really great that you have you have your Rheum to THRIVE because you can give people, dispel that misinformation in that group as well, so. 

[00:41:12] Cheryl:

Yeah. Oh, well, perfect. Perfect segue, I think I was going to quickly say when you said about devoting time to a passion or pursuit, like in the Rheum to THRIVE framework. Thrive is like an acronym and V stands for ‘Values and value activities’. And we actually specifically go through reconnecting with what brings you purpose and what brings you joy. And that is initially, I thought, oh, are people not going to like this section because they’re going to think it’s not like they’re, learning as much directly about arthritis, right? But as time has gone on, I’ve realized that this is actually one of the most important sections of the whole program because yeah, exactly like you said.

[00:41:47] Alison:

Yeah, I think it’s amazing that you have that because that is such a, and that’s something that when you go to the doctor, they’re not going to tell you to do, you know, go write a book or go, you know, go paint, right. So, it is something that really helps you thrive, right, and just feel better generally, physically and mentally.

[00:42:07] Cheryl:

No, it’s, it’s so true. It, yeah, and it takes, like you mentioned earlier, it takes your mind off of what you’re going through and it also gives you a sense of satisfaction. And do you have, we kind of mentioned earlier, inspirational quotes or things that help you on on tough days. Do you have any specific?

[00:42:26] Alison:

Yeah, well, funny enough. So, ‘I can do hard things’ is what we, yeah, that’s, that’s something that we find, well, we just find it, whether it’s the adults or the kids, it’s something, you know, we all have things that we find tough to face in our day. And we find it applies to a lot of situations. And it’s something just, you know, it’s easy to remember. I can do hard things. And so, yeah, we say that a lot to our kids. And yeah, so we try to think of that as well.

[00:42:53] Cheryl:

Same, same wavelength. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. And do you have a favorite arthritis gadget or tool in your toolbox?

[00:43:02] Alison:

My heating pad is my favorite thing. Like, every night, you’re not supposed to lay on your heating pad, but I do.

[00:43:11] Cheryl:

You seem like a rule follower.

[00:43:13] Alison:

I am, but I know I’m like, I don’t care. I’m breaking this rule because it’s just so good. I read my books. Yeah, I’m gonna tell you about my books soon. But yeah, I love my books, read them laying on my heating pad. I have a cushion in the car because I had like a tailbone — I still have, like, I can’t really sit on soft seats. It hurts my tailbone. So, I have to, so I always, like, even right now I’m sitting on a hard stool. I prefer hard things. I can’t sit on my couch. It hurts me after like a couple minutes. So, I have a car cushion that has a little divot for the tailbone so that my tailbone doesn’t hit the seat.

[00:43:50] Cheryl:

I have the same one. I have the same exact one.

[00:43:53] Alison:

We’re twins.

[00:43:54] Cheryl:

Yes. So, that was because of my, after my pilodinal cystectomy, which is the surgery that removed the cysts from my tailbone in 2016, yeah, that I would really need it to take the pressure off.

[00:44:05] Alison:

Yeah. Well, they don’t know. I did a bunch of tests. I did — nothing happened to my tailbone, but it’s just, I think it’s just part of the AS. I don’t know. It’s just the AS. They never figured it out. But anyway, it can flare up if I sit on a soft surface for too long. So, I sit on that. And my exercise bands. And then, just reading and writing to escape from life in general.

[00:44:29] Cheryl:

Oh, that leads us perfectly to the next question. Do you have a favorite book or movie or show recently?

[00:44:35] Alison:

Yeah, so I don’t watch that much TV anymore. I don’t seem to have much time, but I do read a lot still. So, I always read in bed, as I said, on the heating pad. And so, a couple of recent favorites, All the Colors of the Dark by Chris Whitaker, it’s really good. The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue by V. E. Schwab. And I’ve been doing a lot of Kristin Hannah binging lately. I just love her. She’s so amazing.

[00:45:00] Cheryl:

Is she the one that wrote All the Light We Can’t See? No, what did she write?

[00:45:03] Alison:

No, she did, her new one’s The Women, but I haven’t read it yet.

[00:45:07] Cheryl:

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:45:09] Alison:

The Nightingale was her big one.

[00:45:10] Cheryl:

Oh, The Nightingale.

[00:45:11] Alison:

Yeah, The Nightingale. That was beautiful. Yeah, like so sad, but so, her books are, yeah. They’re deep. They’re sad, but just amazing. You get all the feels. So, The Great Alone, True Colors, and Home Again, I’ve read all in the last few months. So, she has a lot of books. So, I love when I find an author that I love and then I just keep like, what else do they have? And I just keep reading them. So, yeah.

[00:45:33] Cheryl:

Yeah. I remember I read All the Light We Can’t See, which is World War II and The Nightingale back-to-back. And I was like, like, what am I doing to myself? But they were both so good. Yeah. So, thank you.

[00:45:45] Alison:

I read her all the time. They’re just so good.

[00:45:46] Cheryl:

Yeah. Yeah. I’ve gotten back — I will say for anyone listening who had a goal in 2025 or whatever year it is you’re listening of stopping yourself, like breaking the habit of just scrolling your phone before going to bed instead of reading before going to bed. ‘Cause my whole life, one of the only constants has been, up until 2020, was reading before I go to bed. I brought my Kindle on my honeymoon. I brought my Kindle like I always read.

[00:46:09] Alison:

Yeah, I always read before bedtime.

[00:46:10] Cheryl:

Yeah, but starting during the pandemic somewhere along the line, social media — my fault, my own like lack of self-regulation. I was like, just scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scrolling on the Internet and Instagram and everything else, which was providing a lot of great social outlet social interaction, but yeah, It gets to the point where you’re just endlessly scrolling. And I just was missing that. And so, in 2024, like I was like, I have to get back into reading. Like, I’m missing this part of me, like, reading an actual story instead of like all these snippets of life. 

So, anyway, I got a new Kindle cover to kind of like rekindle my interest in reading actual — and I, and I joined a book club in Seattle called the Radical Romance Book Club, which is actually all about, it’s about books, romance books. Which first of all, I had like a knee jerk reaction against because I was like, I don’t read romance books. Like, those are just like not real literature or whatever, which is totally wrong. It was totally biased of me. 

But it was, what hooked me was its representation of communities that aren’t usually represented in romance. So, people with disabilities, different sexual orientations, different genders, I mean, different ethnic backgrounds, different parts of the world, different ways, like, different religions, people, you know, involved in, you know, finding a partner and love in all different ways. And the first, the one that they were reading was a woman with rheumatoid arthritis, Always Only You, I don’t know if you’ve heard of that one? 

[00:47:44] Alison:

No, I haven’t actually. 

[00:47:45] Cheryl:

It’s Chloe Liese, I don’t know how to pronounce her last name. I was actually going to have her on the podcast and we had to reschedule. She has written, she herself has like chronic pain and has been open about that. She’s also neurodiverse, like, she’s on the autism spectrum. And so, she has, all her characters in her books have like different, you know, different things going on. Whether it’s like ADHD or whether it’s arthritis in Always Only You.

[00:48:09] Alison:

Okay, I’ll have to check that out. That sounds great.

[00:48:11] Cheryl:

The main character has RA in that book. And so, it’s awesome. Or and anxiety is also represented. One of them, actually, I read the whole series of six of them. And the Bergman Brothers series and the character I related to the most actually wasn’t the one with RA.

It was the male character with OCD and who has anxiety and panic, like, has a panic attack on an airplane, which is like happened to me before. So, yeah. But no, they’re beautiful. Okay. So, sorry. Those are good books. Okay, back to you. What does it mean to you to live a good life and thrive with autoimmune arthritis and chronic illness?

[00:48:52] Alison:

To me, it means being able to enjoy activities with my family, do meaningful work, and have the time and energy to do my creative passions. 

[00:49:04] Cheryl:

I mean, I think to myself, as you’re telling your story, what would have happened if it wasn’t for the pandemic, you know what I mean? I mean, like silver linings and like, the right way, but would you have reinvigorated your creative interest? 

[00:49:18] Alison:

Yeah. I mean, I hope I would. I think it just gave me a little bit more time, but my, it kind of coincided with, as my girls were getting a little bit, they were just starting to get a little bit older, so they were getting out of that stage where, you know, I had to do absolutely everything for them and with them. So, they were getting a bit more independent and I think at that point, it had just been so long since I had done anything creative that I was, it’s almost like hitting like a breaking point. Like, I was like, I had to do something creative because I’ve always been a creative person and I had just been stifling that for so long that I just, yeah, so I think I think I probably would have. But I do think it was great because it gave me, you know, silver lining, but it gave me that little bit of extra time. Although looking back on it, I really didn’t have that much extra time now that I say that. 

[00:50:11] Cheryl:

Because your kids were like —

[00:50:13] Alison:

Yeah, like I was, yeah, they were in virtual school, so they weren’t, you know, there wasn’t that much work they were getting. And as an elementary teacher, you know, it’s like, you can’t handle that. So, I would like every weekend I’d plan out like lesson plans and extra stuff for them for like each day of the week. So, it was a lot. So, it was, and they were home all the time, of course, so and I was also teaching at that time online, so yeah, I guess looking back on it actually was pretty busy, it’s just that, you know, I wasn’t driving them to dance, or driving them, you know, it wasn’t that kind of stuff, so in the evenings you had a bit more time.

[00:50:48] Cheryl:

Yeah, that totally makes sense, and I think you’re right, that, you know, I think for, yeah, once my son hit kindergarten, which did coincide with the pandemic, it is typical to have more, you know, your kid gets more independent and then you have more time to go back to what is important to you. So, yeah, I’m just, I’m glad it happened. I can’t wait for more people to get the book. Is there anything else you would want to share with the audience before we wrap up?

[00:51:13] Alison:

Just about so I’ve partnered with a couple bookstores in Canada, Rookery Books and the Spaniel’s Tale Bookstore, and they’re donating 10% of the proceeds from Kenzie’s Little Tree for the next few months to Crohn’s and Colitis Canada and the Arthritis Society, which is super generous. And then, for American readers, if you pre-order a copy of Kenzie’s Little Tree and fill in the Google form on my website, I will make a personal donation to Crohn’s and Colitis Foundation in the U.S. and the Arthritis Foundation. And you can find all that info on my website. And it sounds like Cheryl will have all that listed on the show notes.

[00:51:49] Cheryl:

Yeah. Wonderful. That’s really, that’s awesome. And I know that so many, you know, people are going to be helped by this book. And hopefully the, you know, the nonprofits can also like, you know, maybe encourage people to order it as well. You know what I mean? So, it’s a win-win.

[00:52:08] Alison:

Yeah. So, nice of the bookstores, they are amazing. It’s just so generous of them and I’m really grateful for that. And I, you know, any fundraising for chronic illness is, you know, makes me happy. It’s amazing.

[00:52:21] Cheryl:

Yeah, I love it. Well, and so I am going to put all your links in the show notes, but where can, just in case someone like has their Instagram pulled up right now, where can people find you online?

[00:52:31] Alison:

So, my website is, it’s my whole name, alisonmcgauley.com. One L. Yeah. Do you want me to, should I spell it or just —?

[00:52:39] Cheryl:

Sure. Yeah.

[00:52:40] Alison:

Okay. A-L-I-S-O-N-M-C-G-A-U-L-E-Y.com. And then, I’m on social media, but it’s pretty much all my handles are just my name, like @AlisonMcGauley on Instagram and Twitter, all the things. So, if you know my name, it’s easy to find me.

[00:53:03] Cheryl:

No, that’s my, I mean, I unfortunately, I wish I had done that. I couldn’t have done it because my name is Cheryl Crow. But even if I, so even if I had, if I got confused with the algorithms and stuff, but anyway, yeah.

[00:53:15] Alison:

I was lucky I got Alison McGauley. Actually, someone just approached and now there’s another Alison McGauley who just approached me on Instagram that, you know, it was like, oh. But there’s hardly any, I think there’s only like two or three of us in the world. So.

[00:53:29] Cheryl:

Wow.

[00:53:29] Alison:

Yeah. So, I got all the Alison McGauley handles. So, I was pretty lucky.

[00:53:33] Cheryl:

That’s smart. That’s super smart. Well, thank you so much. I know it is emotional labor, I consider it, too, to share your story, even if you’re in a good place now. It’s a lot of, mental work to go back and talk about some of these difficult things. And so, I really appreciate that you took the time today to share your story. I know it’s going to help a lot of people. So, thank you for coming on.

[00:53:59] Alison:

Thank you so much for all the support for having me on and supporting Kenzie’s Little Tree and all your words of wisdom. I really appreciate it.

[00:54:08] Cheryl:

It’s been wonderful. So, hopefully everyone will go check that out and we’ll talk to you later. Bye-bye for now.

[00:54:14] Alison:

Thanks, Cheryl. Bye.

[00:54:15] Cheryl:

Thank you. Bye.

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