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Podcast, rheum to thrive

Introducing Chrissy, the newest Rheum to THRIVE Certified Facilitator!

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Summary:

In this episode, Cheryl Crow welcomes back Chrissy Livergood (aka “Arthritic Chrissy”) for an honest, encouraging conversation about what it really looks like to live with uncertainty, shifting diagnoses, and the day to day realities of inflammatory arthritis. Chrissy shares how her diagnosis recently changed from rheumatoid arthritis to ankylosing spondylitis, and how self-advocacy, paying attention to patterns (like back pain), and getting a second opinion ultimately “radically changed the course” of her treatment and symptoms. 

Cheryl and Chrissy also do a deep dive into the Rheum to THRIVE program and discuss their excitement over Chrissy taking on a new role as the lead facilitator of an upcoming cohort.  Chrissy’s facilitation style is flexible and responsive, letting the group’s needs guide the conversation while keeping it grounded in the weekly theme. If you want a supportive, stigma-free space that helps you feel less alone, more informed, and more capable of building a full life with arthritis, Chrissy’s Rheum to THRIVE group might be just right for you – learn more here. 

Episode at a glance:

  • 00:00 Welcome Back, Chrissy! Quick Catch-Up & Arthritis Background
  • 11:23 Big Announcement: Training New Rheum to Thrive Facilitators
  • 12:13 Why Chrissy Wanted to Facilitate (and What Participants Gain)
  • 18:40 What a Typical Rheum to Thrive Meeting Looks Like (THRIVE Breakdown)
  • 35:26 Rheum to Thrive Explained: Cohort Learning + Alumni Support (and Why Topics Help)
  • 39:41 On the Fence About Support Groups? Privacy, Intimidation & Finding the Right Fit
  • 42:30 Myths, Doom Spirals & Misinformation: What Good Facilitation Looks Like
  • 45:45 Participation Your Way: Cameras Off, Chat-Only, Discord, and Asking for Help
  • 51:34 Words of Wisdom: “Life Is Different, But It’s Not Over” + Acceptance & Adapting Goals

Medical disclaimer: 

All content found onArthritis Life public channels was created for generalized informational purposes only. The content is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

Episode Sponsors

Rheum to THRIVE, an online course and support program Cheryl created to help people with rheumatic disease go from overwhelmed, confused and alone to confident, supported and connected. See all the details and join the program or waitlist now! 

Speaker Bios:

Chrissy Livergood has lived with joint pain for as long as she can remember, from being the only kid who couldn’t run the mile in elementary school, to spending two decades visiting doctor after doctor who could never explain why something was always hurting or swollen. After nearly 35 years of searching for answers, she finally got one: first a rheumatoid arthritis diagnosis in 2021, then a revised diagnosis of ankylosing spondylitis in late 2025. Navigating a chronic illness diagnosis is already a lot to carry, and a revised diagnosis is a rollercoaster all its own, bringing a new wave of grief, questions, and identity reckoning she is still sorting out.

Chrissy became a Rheum to THRIVE facilitator because programs like this one changed her life. After diagnosis, she found herself in some genuinely dark places – overwhelmed, grieving the years she’d lost, and unsure how to build a life around a chronic condition. Community pulled her out. She has been facilitating Connect Groups for the Arthritis Foundation for over a year, and what she loves most about it is watching that shift happen; the moment someone goes from feeling alone and overwhelmed to feeling informed, supported, and capable. She brings her own experience with delayed diagnosis, the challenges of being a woman with ankylosing spondylitis, and a deep belief that community and education are among the most powerful tools in any arthritis toolkit.

Cheryl Crow

Cheryl is an occupational therapist who has lived with rheumatoid arthritis for over twenty years. Her life passion is helping others with rheumatoid arthritis figure out how to live a full life despite arthritis, by developing tools to navigate physical, emotional and social challenges. She formed the educational company Arthritis Life in 2019 after seeing a huge need for more engaging, accessible, and (dare I say) FUN patient education and self-management resources.

Episode links:

Full Episode Transcript:

[00:00:05] Cheryl Crow: All right. I’m so excited to have Chrissy back on the podcast. Welcome. 

[00:00:15] Chrissy Livergood: Thanks. I’m excited to be back. 

[00:00:17] Cheryl Crow: Yay. So people can learn more about your story on episode 1 54 of this podcast, but can you first just let people know where do you live and what is your relationship to arthritis? 

[00:00:31] Chrissy Livergood: Yes. So, I kind of split my time between Syracuse, New York and the Los Angeles area and my relationship to arthritis.

[00:00:41] Chrissy Livergood: I guess if we go back to the very, very beginning, I pretty much have been symptomatic with some kind of inflammatory arthritis as far back as I can remember, grade school level memories. But a diagnosis did not come until 2021. Originally diagnosed [00:01:00] with rheumatoid arthritis. I think really just to give a name to you have some kind of autoimmune inflammatory arthritis condition.

[00:01:07] Chrissy Livergood: We don’t really know what it is, so we’re gonna call it RA. But recently, let’s see, about three months ago that was changed to ankylosing spondylitis. So I am learning to navigate a new condition that is very similar to RA really in many ways, but it’s kind of new territory. 

[00:01:28] Cheryl Crow: Yeah. Well, and it’s, and something’s in the air because 

[00:01:31] Cheryl Crow: You’re the third friend of mine that has gotten their diagnosis changed. Or a new diagnosis added on. Like so in Eileen’s case, she now has RA and got added ankylosing spondylitis versus, or non-radiographic axial spondyloarthritis, where there are also a few people in addition to you that have gotten their diagnosis changed.

[00:01:53] Cheryl Crow: Can you explain, you know, again, if people wanna hear your full story at the time in episode, you know, 1 54, [00:02:00] they could do that. But can you explain a little bit more? What were some of the things that led you, ’cause this wasn’t just something that your healthcare team figured out this, it was very much generated from you.

[00:02:11] Cheryl Crow: What were some of the things that, that steps that you took and things you noticed that led you to kind of have, seek an, a reevaluation of your diagnosis? 

[00:02:21] Chrissy Livergood: Yeah, so my we were really doing a sort of treat the symptoms strategy because again, it was like I was responding to biologic. And so we knew there was some like autoimmune component but not exactly what it was.

[00:02:38] Chrissy Livergood: So my symptoms were pretty well controlled, but my blood work was still, like my inflammation markers in my blood work were still elevated and they were pretty steady and they were lower than they were like when I was diagnosed, but I was still concerned about that mostly because of all of the other things that come with inflammatory arthritis, [00:03:00] like that chronic systemic inflammation and like cardiovascular risks and things like that.

[00:03:06] Chrissy Livergood: So I had been asking for a while you know, are we just gonna continue this treatment forever or what’s kind of the plan? And the practice I was at I saw one of two doctors depending on the appointment and they both were like, oh, you’re stable. Like your symptoms are pretty good.

[00:03:23] Chrissy Livergood: You know, we’re just gonna, I think it was kind of a, if it ain’t broke strategy I kind of ended up seeing a different doctor as a result of just like some things going on in my life, in geography, and I could get in with someone new. And the timing just seemed right to be like, you know what, let’s just see what somebody else has to say.

[00:03:45] Chrissy Livergood: I wasn’t unhappy with my care, but I was also like, I’m not sure if this is it. I do, I am HLA B 27 positive which is like an antibody that I think, like most people who have it [00:04:00] don’t have any kind of chronic condition, but most people who have ankylosing spondylitis have that antibody kind of situation.

[00:04:07] Chrissy Livergood: So I was positive for that. And I remember my original rheumatologist was like, well this is often associated with ankylosing spondylitis, but you’re a woman. And I think historically as has been associated with men. And so it was kind of dismissed from the beginning. But I have always had problems with my back.

[00:04:31] Chrissy Livergood: And ankylosing spondylitis is kind of associated with inflammation in a very specific area and sacroiliac joints. And it’s really interesting. I went back and looked at my like clinical notes. And I have in my, like the notes that the doctor wrote down all the way back to at least 2023 complaints about back pain and the HLAB 27.

[00:04:54] Chrissy Livergood: And they still were like, nah. So anyway, I saw this new doctor, he saw the HLAB 27 and immediately was [00:05:00] like, we’re getting an MRI and the MRI showed both inflammation and damage in the sacroiliac joints. And so that in combination with the antibody and my symptoms, like my, primarily my large joints are affected.

[00:05:16] Chrissy Livergood: I do have a little bit of pain and swelling sometimes in my hands, but not those, like smaller joints that are more often associated with RA. So all of this combined is kind of like a slam dunk, I think for ankylosing spondylitis. So, change the, the diagnosis pretty quickly and changed my treatment immediately.

[00:05:36] Chrissy Livergood: And I think that was gonna happen regardless of what we were calling it. And I’ve had a very fast and positive response to the new treatment. So, I was hesitant, I think, to get a second opinion ’cause I was like, no, this is fine. Everything’s fine. And I, for some reason it was kind of intimidating to be like, oh, if I go [00:06:00] talk to somebody else, is my other doctor gonna find out Right.

[00:06:02] Chrissy Livergood: Or be mad or something. And I’ve got a good thing going so I don’t wanna mess that up. But, it turned out to kind of radically change the course of my disease and my symptoms and everything else, so, 

[00:06:15] Cheryl Crow: yeah. Yeah. Well, and I just wanna sprinkle in. So first of all, thank you for sharing that because it is a big deal to have your diagnosis changed.

[00:06:23] Cheryl Crow: And I definitely, just a few educational points to sprinkle in there is that, you know, sacroiliac, that’s like the base of your spine pain is really not common in rheumatoid arthritis. And any sort of axial or spine pain is not common. It doesn’t mean that it never happens, but it’s one of the things that a lot of rheumatologists use and what they call the differential diagnosis to differentiate, okay, they have some sort of inflammatory arthritis.

[00:06:48] Cheryl Crow: It’s it psoriatic arthritis, which can mimic the other two. Or is it a you know, axial spondyloarthritis, which could be either. Non-radiographic or radiographic in the case. It’s radiographic. [00:07:00] It’s enclosing spondylitis or is it rheumatoid arthritis? And anyway, point being that, the other thing that is looked at is the HLAB27.

[00:07:07] Cheryl Crow: It’s not an antibody, it’s a gene variant. So it’s like a genetic, it’s a genetic 

[00:07:12] Chrissy Livergood: antibody. 

[00:07:13] Cheryl Crow: Yeah. I think you accidentally said, an antibody, but just, 

[00:07:15] Chrissy Livergood: no, I’m sorry.

[00:07:15] Cheryl Crow: No. It’s okay. It’s okay. Yeah. And but you’re very, you’re right to say that it’s one of the confusing things is majority or a lot of pe people who have, AS ankylosing spondylitis have that gene variant, but the majority of people who have that gene variant do not have as so it’s kind of like a lot of this stuff is like a study and statistics, but 

[00:07:33] Chrissy Livergood: Yeah. 

[00:07:33] Cheryl Crow: I just want people tell, you know, people listening, it is hard that there’s no I always use example of diabetes with diabetes. There’s a very clear line in the sand where if your fasting blood sugar is above X number, which we take with a very simple blood test, you have diabetes, like no questions asked.

[00:07:51] Cheryl Crow: Now is it type one or is it, you know, type two? That’s a whole other thing, but where there’s not this complete straight shot diagnosis for [00:08:00] any of these. But you would take, that’s why it’s called diagnosis of an exclusion. The doctors take all the data together and make that diagnosis, but it, that puts patients in a very, a position of having to deal with uncertainty.

[00:08:13] Cheryl Crow: ’cause even when you follow a textbook definition, you still kind of have this lingering doubt. At least I do in the back of my mind. Is it really this, you know? 

[00:08:21] Chrissy Livergood: Yeah. And that’s an interesting point because my symptoms were so well controlled that I was actually, when all this happened, I was going through for several months this kind of weird period where I was having some doubts am I even sick?

[00:08:38] Chrissy Livergood: Is that even, 

[00:08:38] Cheryl Crow: I’ve had that before too. I think when you’re doing well, it’s, even though you’re treated, you’re like, I’m on medication. So,

[00:08:43] Chrissy Livergood: it’s weird. It’s, it was a really weird feeling and almost like chronic illness imposter syndrome. Should I be in these groups?

[00:08:52] Chrissy Livergood: Should I be talking to people because like I’m feeling okay, am I really is this just a big mistake? And so [00:09:00] getting a different diagnosis sure snap me out of that quick because now I have like real proof of the damage and all that stuff. So it was a rollercoaster that last six months of the 2025 I think, where I was like, am I even sick to, oh, I am.

[00:09:18] Chrissy Livergood: And it’s something new. 

[00:09:20] Cheryl Crow: Yeah. I think it’s so common to have that, imposter syndrome. And actually we’ve, you know, in the course of running the rheum to thrive support groups over the last, now six years actually I’ve definitely had people who you can even start the program feeling like not great.

[00:09:37] Cheryl Crow: And then if your treatment starts kicking in people can start feeling wait a minute, do I even belong? Do I belong in a support group anymore? You know, but it’s still something that affects your life, even if it’s well controlled disease. Or there are people also who their diagnosis genuinely gets changed and it’s maybe not even a rheumatic disease anymore, but it, you know, they still feel connected to the people in the group and [00:10:00] they still have the symptoms of fatigue or joint pain or brain fog. And so, they still need that support system. But I’m really glad you brought that up ’cause I think it’s not something a lot of people talk about. And the second thing I wanted to briefly say that I’m gonna put in the show notes links to like learning about the HLAB 27 gene variant, and also a site that I found extremely helpful, which is a radiology assistant website out of the Netherlands.

[00:10:26] Cheryl Crow: And it shows, it’s a giant long webpage that shows visuals that are like, you know, kind of simplified graphics and real X-rays of people with different kinds of arthritis. So osteoarthritis, gout, erosive osteoarthritis, RA, psoriatic arthritis, scleroderma, rheumatoid arthritis.

[00:10:45] Cheryl Crow: And it’s great because it shows you like exactly what it might look like, because you’re right that even the blood work doesn’t tell the whole story. The physical exam doesn’t tell this whole story. But when you’re having that imposter syndrome, like I know I have things that show up on, [00:11:00] on the imaging as well for my rheumatoid arthritis and osteoarthritis.

[00:11:03] Cheryl Crow: So. In a way that could kind of help you feel more validated, you know? 

[00:11:07] Cheryl Crow: But yeah, so thank you for sharing that. That’s really, it’s a very destabilizing feeling, I think, to get your diagnosis changed. And but I think talking about it and sharing our stories is obviously huge. ’cause then other people listening who’ve had that experience know that, you know, they’re not alone.

[00:11:23] Cheryl Crow: And the other thing, the main topic today on top of just catching up with you and letting everyone know that in, in just a year, a lot can change. But also this episode is I’m announcing that, you know, after facilitating all of the Rheum to thrive support groups, starting in 2020 until now, early 2026, I have started training a small select wonderful group of others who’ve taken the program who are interested in becoming certified Rheum to Thrive facilitators.

[00:11:57] Cheryl Crow: And this year you are one of them, and you’re gonna [00:12:00] be starting your own group, which I’m so excited about. Yay. So yeah. Yay. So can you tell me a little more like what made you interested in being a facilitator? Because it’s a big job. It’s a big responsibility. 

[00:12:13] Chrissy Livergood: Yeah. So, I think the biggest reason is just I get so much value as a participant that it’s okay, I wanna make sure other people have this opportunity too.

[00:12:26] Chrissy Livergood: It like being part of a support group just fundamentally changed my path with a chronic illness and I really don’t know what I would’ve done without it. And so that like kind of need to make sure that it’s available to other people is really the motivator for me. The other part of it though, it’s also just like you always learn something new.

[00:12:56] Chrissy Livergood: Whether you’re a participant or a facilitator or however you’re [00:13:00] involved with a support group, there’s just always something like the world of rheumatic disease is so everybody’s got a different path and a different situation, but there’s so much overlap too, and there’s so much information to try and consume that you don’t know what you don’t know.

[00:13:21] Chrissy Livergood: Like being able to interact with other people is just a constant learning experience. And so keeping, you know, involved in that kind of community is important for my own. Disease management, I guess. 

[00:13:39] Cheryl Crow: I mean, a hundred percent. I I know this maybe even sounds cliche, like I know a lot of times teachers will say I learned as much from you as you learned from me.

[00:13:47] Cheryl Crow: Right? Right. It does happen because everyone, every person with a chronic condition, it becomes an expert in their own care and in their own experience and yeah, every time I’ve done one of these groups, I’ve also [00:14:00] learned a lot too, but you’re right. It’s also very, it’s very gratifying to be able to, you know, be in that role of helping others kind of have that transformation between feeling so lost and alone and overwhelmed to like then feeling more grounded.

[00:14:14] Cheryl Crow: And I wanted to know a little bit, like what stood out to you most about co-facilitating the most recent cohort, which, okay, I should stop and say. So the most recent group that ran for the Rheum to Thrive support group was from September to January, September, 2025 to January, 2026. And so I had you and two other facilitators in training where I started, you know, the first couple meetings, and then I was training you and how the program goes.

[00:14:40] Cheryl Crow: What were some of the things that, that you liked the most about, or that stood out to you about what the participants got out of the program? 

[00:14:48] Chrissy Livergood: Yeah, it’s the same, but different being in the facilitator role than part of the cohort. And so it was just really interesting to see like what different things would come up in [00:15:00] conversation and kind of where the conversations would go.

[00:15:03] Chrissy Livergood: Every cohort is gonna be different. And something I really like about the cohort structure and I felt like happened with that group was it’s not just the course material, but when you’re spending months with people, you kind of bring other things to the table, like home management or I have this thing that might not seem explicitly related to chronic illness, but my condition does impact it and how well, how are other people dealing with this kind of stuff?

[00:15:39] Chrissy Livergood: And so I really like that the facilitator gets to be part of that too. But yeah, really seeing like how different things are brought to the table with different groups as the facilitator. And it helps inform facilitation further in that group, but in future groups too, what [00:16:00] are topics that keep coming up over and over again?

[00:16:02] Chrissy Livergood: What’s important to this group? What do they like to discuss? What is maybe more uncomfortable? And so being able to tailor the discussion to the group is kind of like a cool experience too. 

[00:16:17] Cheryl Crow: Yeah. Yeah. It really is interesting be, I mean, group dynamics are such that, like you said, each group really is unique, yet there are the greatest hits, like the things that come up every time.

[00:16:28] Cheryl Crow: Right. Which is feeling like, you know, you don’t know exactly how to best prepare for an appointment. You know, that comes up a lot. Or oh, I left that appointment and I immediately thought of three questions I should have asked and we can help each other, you know, work through that. And I’m like, okay, we can’t control what we did this time, that we can control what we can do next time.

[00:16:46] Cheryl Crow: Or feeling like it was hard to explain it to friends and family or feeling that kind of maybe alienation and your social life and being able to, but it manifests differently because the world in which each, the context of each person’s world is different, right? [00:17:00] So, okay, I have the social effect of my RA.

[00:17:01] Cheryl Crow: Everyone has some social effect, but the exact effect is gonna be different, you know? For each group. So yeah it’s really I hope you’ll see what I’ve seen too is the more groups you do it’s just each one is its own. 

[00:17:14] Cheryl Crow: Each one is its own world. And you know, in general sorry, zooming back to the big perspective, like why you meant, you kind of already answered this, but why is a program like Rheum to Thrive especially important for inflammatory forms of arthritis?

[00:17:28] Chrissy Livergood: Yeah, so I mean, I, I think a lot of the reason for this program is like, how do we consolidate a massive amount of patient self-education into one place and, again, I don’t know like how I would’ve found out a lot of these things on my own. And so having a structured program I think is super helpful where frankly, someone else has done a lot of the work to kind of just compile all the information and give it to you.

[00:17:58] Chrissy Livergood: And it is [00:18:00] technical and it is science-based, but there’s also just like the human component too. And so it’s kind of like tying everything together okay, these are need to knows, these are things about my condition from a medical standpoint that might be important for me to know, but I’m also able to talk about how those affect, like how I cook dinner with a group of people who understand the exact same struggle that I’m having.

[00:18:33] Cheryl Crow: Yeah, that’s beautiful. You kind of really painted a picture of it’s the macro and the micro. 

[00:18:37] Cheryl Crow: We kind of are constantly zooming back and forth. And, you know, one thing that I don’t think I’ve done the best job in the world on this podcast of walking people through the structure of the programs that this wasn’t a question that we plan on asking before, but would you mind, so let me know if you don’t wanna answer it.

[00:18:55] Cheryl Crow: But could you describe a little bit like what a typical [00:19:00] meeting structure is like for people who might, you know, I think when people hear the idea of a support group or a self-management, self educational support group, there’s a lot of different ways they could be structured, so, 

[00:19:11] Cheryl Crow: Can you describe that a little bit for people who might not be sure if it’s a good fit for them?

[00:19:15] Chrissy Livergood: Sure. I mean, I think we have a nice little ease into the day with usually an icebreaker and like everything is very come at your own pace, come at your own comfort level. Like you show up when you can. If you can’t, that’s okay too. If you need to have your camera off and just say I’m really going through it today, that’s totally cool.

[00:19:38] Chrissy Livergood: But yeah, usually an icebreaker, again, like very optional. They’re usually like kind of silly get to know, I guess that’s the point of an icebreaker, but, you know, kind of, more personal preference kind of stuff. And then there is a topic for each meeting and so the week prior there is a video and some slides and things that you can review on [00:20:00] your own time.

[00:20:00] Chrissy Livergood: And then, that will be the content for the following meeting. And I mean, everyone has a different facilitation style, so, your experience may vary, but you know, really kind of covering the high points of the material from the previous weeks’s, I guess, curriculum, syllabus, whatever you wanna call it.

[00:20:21] Cheryl Crow: Yeah. And I’ll remind everyone that the Thrive is an acronym. So it stands for tools for Pain and Fatigue, and then Helpful Habits, which is the exercise, nutrition, sleep. And then the R is the relationships, the I is the inner world mental health. The V is valued activities, and e is executive functions.

[00:20:39] Cheryl Crow: And that includes like getting organized and symptom tracking and advocacy and stuff like that. So it’s like then educational materials broken down. So we’re talking about one of those topics each week. 

[00:20:49] Chrissy Livergood: And they do, they go in that order and you have a couple meetings dedicated to each.

[00:20:54] Chrissy Livergood: Letter bucket. 

[00:20:56] Cheryl Crow: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:20:57] Chrissy Livergood: Yeah. So there’s usually a good [00:21:00] chunk of the time devoted to pretty open discussion about the material. And then just a kind of free for all. Usually the last like quarter to third of a meeting is just kind of open we can continue talking about the topic.

[00:21:14] Chrissy Livergood: If people have a lot to say about that. If someone has a question about, you know, Hey, I had this funny medication side effect, or does anybody have a tip for shoulder pain? Or, you know what? Anything or look how cute my dog is today. It can really be very open-ended, just kind of chatting with your cohort.

[00:21:37] Chrissy Livergood: So, and I really liked the I mean, I know the acronym is like handy and clever, but I do really like the sequence that things go through in the course because I feel like it is a little like. Some of the more for me anyway, some of the more like really educational components were upfront.

[00:21:56] Chrissy Livergood: And then as time goes by, it sort of morphs into okay, now [00:22:00] what do I do with that? How do I implement these things? And so I really like the progression of the course. Here’s the tool, here’s how I’m gonna use it 

[00:22:11] Cheryl Crow: a hundred percent. And yeah, part of that you know, is a lucky accident because of like the order of the word thrive.

[00:22:18] Cheryl Crow: And I was like, I want to stay in this order because it’s yeah, but I still would’ve structured that way even if it didn’t follow the word perfectly. Because like things like inner world, like you’re not comfortable in a group setting usually talking about that until you’ve gotten to know people a little bit.

[00:22:32] Cheryl Crow: So. Well, if we start with things like in a way it impacts our quality of life so much. But it’s also the low hanging fruit in terms of just complexity. In some ways, the tools for pain and fatigue are a little bit more, they’re not as personal and emotional sometimes as talking about our relationships, like how our relationships are impacted, whether that’s friendships, families, coworkers, and yeah.

[00:22:57] Cheryl Crow: So I’m glad you mentioned that. ’cause you know, the [00:23:00] structure of the program has changed a lot over the years. If anyone’s listening, who maybe did it back in 20 20, 20 21, I used to deliver all the educational material live. And so the first part of the meeting I would deliver that material and then the second part we would have discussion about the topic of the week that I just talked about and anything else going on.

[00:23:18] Cheryl Crow: And we just found, I just found that we didn’t have enough time and it was a lot of also mental load to have to process all that information. And then immediately talk about it versus prerecording. So even if you take the group with Chrissy, you’ll be looking at the prerecorded lecture of the week is still done by me.

[00:23:35] Cheryl Crow: And then, but Chrissy’s helping you bring it to life and answering questions about it and then helping you apply like she said. So it’s just so much, you know, it makes the material really real and helps us also chunk it out. ’cause it’s like when you first get, I know you’re like, but I want you to know everything and how am I gonna manage this and that, and fatigue and my, you know, appointments.

[00:23:53] Cheryl Crow: And you’re like, okay, we’ll do one topic a week. We’re gonna break it down and Yeah. So, yeah. And you mentioned, you know, different facilitators have different [00:24:00] styles. That was actually one of the prime motivators for me in training other people to be facilitators. A the logistical one of just being able to offer times that are outside of the times that I’m available is huge.

[00:24:11] Cheryl Crow: Right? Because I don’t, a lot of people with rheumatoid arthritis feel worse in the morning and kind of better as the day it goes on. I’m a morning person, so I, even though my joints might feel stiff in the morning, my brain is the best in the morning and then kind of deteriorates. No, and I gotta get like an mid-afternoon slump, and then if I take a rest, I’ll feel better again, a little bit.

[00:24:29] Cheryl Crow: But other people, a lot of people, either because of their circadian rhythm or because of their work schedule they want or just need the meetings to be later in the day or in the evening. And I used to do that during COVID initial COVID times. But now with my son having more activities, I’m not available.

[00:24:45] Cheryl Crow: So, long story short, that was one of the motivators for me to be able to offer the program to people whose schedules just don’t line up with mine. The second one is that I truly believe that different styles, different personalities, work for different people. You know, I am [00:25:00] very bubbly and outgoing and like some, for some people that just doesn’t like, or I use humor as a coping skill and that might not jive with everyone.

[00:25:09] Cheryl Crow: And there are other people that, and not even just, if it’s not the, their personality style, other people might also just want someone who has a different lived experience you know, I’m not an engineer, you’re an engineer, you know, or like you know, sure. I’m a mom, you’re not a mom, or whatever.

[00:25:23] Cheryl Crow: It is like a role in life, you know? And Eileen has the experience of being a single mom. She’s gonna be one of the facilitators too, or to tell she’s Latina and that is like a different she brings that perspective. So having this larger, like group of facilitators is gonna be great. But can you talk a little more about your maybe facilitation style or what environment, kind of environment you like to facilitate in groups?

[00:25:47] Chrissy Livergood: Yeah. I’d say I am like very where the wind blows the group. So there is a structure to the program and there is a topic. My style I think is kinda [00:26:00] let’s see where it goes. I’m not reading from a script. I’m not like very regimented and some people want that. I am a little more here’s the topic.

[00:26:09] Chrissy Livergood: I’m gonna give you a few things that I think are high points that might be, you know, a nice kicking off point for discussion. Let it kind of run. The way I see my role is making sure that discussion can go where it needs to go, but we keep it related in some way to the topic at hand, and not to say we can’t go off topic.

[00:26:34] Chrissy Livergood: A lot of that too will be like, Hey, let’s wait till the end and chat about it then. But I really like to just let the dynamic be the dynamic and kind let everyone do their thing, I guess. 

[00:26:48] Cheryl Crow: Yeah. Well, I think that’s so great because it really is, different groups have different flavors.

[00:26:54] Cheryl Crow: You know, some groups, people are really talkative and want to, you know, talk ping [00:27:00] pong through lots of different topics. Other times the groups are like, they really have a lot of like detailed questions on like medications or, and obviously this is, the groups are not therapy, they’re not psychological therapy and they’re not medical groups are not medical advice ever.

[00:27:15] Cheryl Crow: But we can answer people’s general questions. They wanna hear from another human being of Hey. Do you find that your methotrexate side effects tend to occur like 12 hours after or 24? ’cause I hear different things, or do you also deal with nausea? How do you cope with that? You know, that kind of thing.

[00:27:33] Cheryl Crow: Sometimes people are really like, you know, there’s that, the mood that day is that people really wanna talk about logistics. And other days it’s like bigger, broader picture. Like, how do you all cope with uncertainty about the future and like, how are you gonna, are I gonna be able to do my job?

[00:27:47] Cheryl Crow: And you know, and other times people are like, I wanna talk about doing my makeup and my hair. You know. 

[00:27:51] Chrissy Livergood: Yeah. And I’ll say, part of that going with the flow is if the group truly wants something more structured like [00:28:00] game on. I’m totally willing to come in and be like, here’s outline and this is what we’re doing today.

[00:28:04] Chrissy Livergood: That’s that group’s dynamic. So, I’m really kinda like to observe and see what’s going on. And I wanted to mention something that this came up earlier talking about the course progression and like getting more comfortable with the group as things go on. But there is a pretty, like the heavy emphasis on this is a confidential space.

[00:28:24] Chrissy Livergood: Oh and making sure that as we get to know each other, people might feel more comfortable opening up, but from the jump, this is very this is, you know, what happens in the Thrive Group stays in the Thrive group kind of situation. And so I think that’s part of my approach too is like this is the safe space to talk about all these things and making it available for people to talk about the things that they need to.

[00:28:52] Cheryl Crow: Thank you for mentioning that and yeah, I think one of the things that we do is we do, I do, you know, have it [00:29:00] structured so that we record as a default. We record the meetings just so that if people maybe had to make an emergency medical appointment or just their schedule didn’t allow them to attend live, they can still hear or watch the meeting recording.

[00:29:13] Cheryl Crow: But we have it so that if anyone ever wishes to speak off the record, like they really want to just make sure there’s no possible, there are no recording and they just are more comfortable with it being only live. We can pause the recording at any time so that it just lives in that moment because yeah, that’s kind of a cornerstone of the group. Group process is like confidentiality and there’s really, the ground rules are confidentiality and respect. And that said, now you might say, okay, well then why are you two even talking about the groups? ’cause we’re not talking any specific specificity about any members except

[00:29:47] Cheryl Crow: when I’ll say look, if you become, a lot of people become genuinely friends, like offline friends. Like not outside of the container of the group. People become genuine friends with each other in these cohorts. And so if [00:30:00] you want to then share like you both are okay publicly, let’s say making a cute dancing video together or something and saying we met at the Rheum to Thrive group and now we’re doing this.

[00:30:09] Cheryl Crow: You can share about your own story, just not someone else’s story without permission from them if you’re using any sort of identifiers. So, you know, you could say in the group today, like something very general, like in my support group today, we talked about, you know, our values and valued activities and it made me think about this.

[00:30:28] Cheryl Crow: That’s totally fine, but you don’t wanna be like, and then Chrissy said that she values this and then this happened. You’re like, what? Yeah. You, yeah. Honoring the confidentiality is in the safe space is huge. And, I know that, you know, both of us really believe in the power of support groups that outside of Rheum to Thrive. I mean, I created my own structure based on my occupational therapy perspective and my unique experience, but I don’t think there’s no one size fits all. There are definitely, I think people should have access to as many different kinds of groups, so that can find one that, that fits our needs.

[00:30:59] Cheryl Crow: And [00:31:00] I participate in the Seattle Area Arthritis Foundation Connect Group. And I know you also have experienced, you’re a seasoned facilitator of an Arthritis Foundation Connect group yourself. So can you tell me a little bit, first of all, just about the group that you facilitate? 

[00:31:15] Chrissy Livergood: Yeah, I co-facilitate one that is for the greater Los Angeles area, as well as one that is focused on cycling.

[00:31:23] Chrissy Livergood: So the connect groups are kind of like arthritis foundation’s support group structure. Some are like location based, like LA or Seattle. Some are disease specific. So there’s like a rheumatoid arthritis group. There’s one for like parents of JA kids. There are, and then there are like special interest groups.

[00:31:43] Chrissy Livergood: So, cycling would be one of those. So, I started, when I got my first diagnosis, my original diagnosis, I immediately, I didn’t know anybody in real life who had any kind of like rheumatic disease or early chronic illness. So I like ran to the [00:32:00] internet to save me and found the Arthritis Foundation Connect groups very quickly and joined one of those right away.

[00:32:08] Chrissy Livergood: And kind of over time have found myself in the facilitation role. And the same thing there. It was just like, this was so important to the direction that my life went, frankly, with a diagnosis that I just wanted to make sure that it was available to other people to have that resource available to them too.

[00:32:31] Cheryl Crow: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, just full disclosure that those are free groups and they’re funded through the fundraising of the arthritis foundation, you know, and the way I’ve structured mine is that it is a paid program. So those, that’s a difference. And I do o offer, scholarships and pay what you can options to mine, including, I’m actually, I’m at the point where I’m at 99, I’ve given 99 scholarships.

[00:32:54] Cheryl Crow: I know ’cause I have an application form. It’s actually more than that. ’cause I didn’t use to have a form. I used to just do it like via email. [00:33:00] Then I was like, I need to have something more that I can keep track of easier. So I do offer a number of pay what you can options too. But it’s just two different structures.

[00:33:09] Cheryl Crow: But yeah, I mean, I think i’m a big fan of them. I’ve definitely learned a lot in the one I’ve gone to. And I’ve definitely, I started going to it when it was an in-person. You know, thing, and it’s really nice to connect to people. I did the the Seattle general one. It’s nice to connect to people in your community.

[00:33:23] Cheryl Crow: I’ve made friendships there that I continue, but then they’re also now with the virtual support groups being more popular. It’s really awesome because you can, yeah. If you’re really interested in cycling and you live in like Nebraska, you can talk to Chrissy who’s in either in New York or California, depending on what day you talk to her about cycling. Yeah. And what are some things that you’ve learned about, or what are some things that, ways that facilitating the Arthritis Foundation Connect groups maybe shaped how you show up as a facility now? 

[00:33:55] Chrissy Livergood: So they’re very different to, you know, Rheum to Thrive has a structure.

[00:33:59] Chrissy Livergood: [00:34:00] The connect groups are like very open-ended. It’s kind of whatever the facilitator brings to the group or whatever the group brings to the facilitator, I suppose. But it can be a little more open-ended. Some groups are really science heavy and bring doctors in. Some are very like, let’s talk about breath work.

[00:34:24] Chrissy Livergood: And it can really just depend on what you get that month. Which is awesome. There’s a ton of variety, but it is I think in many cases, a little less structured. I think that’s not the meetings themselves, like my meetings go through a very similar structure actually with like icebreaker topic, open-ended.

[00:34:45] Chrissy Livergood: But month to month might be different. And I think that’s probably informed a lot of my Hey, let’s just go with the flow type of facilitation because at least in my groups, the topics like very wildly from month to month. [00:35:00] And you, it’s not a, it’s not a cohort structure. 

[00:35:04] Cheryl Crow: Yeah. 

[00:35:05] Chrissy Livergood: So, it’s kind of, people pop in whenever they can feel like it, et cetera.

[00:35:10] Chrissy Livergood: So you’re not necessarily with a set group for a set period of time. 

[00:35:18] Chrissy Livergood: So I think that’s probably where a lot of my like experience just lies in something a little more fluid.

[00:35:24] Cheryl Crow: Right, right. 

[00:35:25] Chrissy Livergood: Yeah. 

[00:35:26] Cheryl Crow: Yeah. And I think, yeah, that’s one thing to just, if people are like looking at different options, like mine, the initial Rheum to Thrive program is depending on the time of year, it’s pretty much weekly or like two to three times a month. But it’s sequential in terms of there is like a learning experience people are having now. I will say I’m, we don’t require people watch any of the educational videos or read any of the educational content.

[00:35:52] Cheryl Crow: It’s an adult learning model, but it really is in occupational therapy world and psychology, they’ll be called a, it’s really a [00:36:00] self-management plus support group. It’s not purely only support, but that’s what people, and that’s, people end up saying that’s kinda like the secret sauce is that it’s a blend of both and but that being said, what we end up doing is like.

[00:36:14] Cheryl Crow: You get, it’s almost intensive, like an intensive, you know, weekly thing for this 14 weeks. And then if you would like to meet continually and that’s, sorry, that’s all with one cohort, the same group of people. And then if you want to keep meeting weekly we have the graduates like alumni group, which I always wanna mention because sometimes people forget that, once you’ve done the initial program, you’re eligible forever as far in as long as I run it and as long as we run it the, for the graduates group.

[00:36:43] Cheryl Crow: And that is a lot more of the open-ended discussion. But I actually recently did start adding in the topics of the week because I think what’s nice about the topic of the week. Again, like tools for pain and fatigue, or tools for just pain tools for just fatigue or talking about, you know, relationships.

[00:36:59] Cheryl Crow: Let’s talk just [00:37:00] about friendships. This week, it kind of starts the conversation off with a common ground, like a common topic and ’cause some people open-ended in my head sometimes. I have so many ideas and so many thoughts that I’m gonna bounce around, like perennially in an open-ended talk, and it’s nice to, and other people have a hard time.

[00:37:18] Cheryl Crow: They’re on the opposite. They can’t even though they might have a hundred questions, if you give ’em an open-ended prompt, they’ll be like frozen. I can’t even think of one. But if you’re like, let’s talk about fatigue, you’re like, oh, I, here’s my questions about fatigue. It grounds the discussion.

[00:37:31] Cheryl Crow: So, again, yeah, they’re just different things for different people. 

[00:37:34] Chrissy Livergood: I like the graduate structure too. Having both the like very open-ended, but just like a touch of focus because these conditions are so dynamic. Yeah, that okay, I took the course two years ago, or in my case, if I had taken it a year ago, like a lot has changed.

[00:37:54] Chrissy Livergood: Or your med stopped working or something like, 

[00:37:57] Cheryl Crow: yes. [00:38:00] 

[00:38:00] Chrissy Livergood: I feel like very few people that I’ve encountered are like, here’s my diagnosis, here’s my treatment plan. This is what we’re doing forever. Something’s always, and so revisiting the topics I think is extremely helpful. Or you just here’s something new for the first time and think oh wait a second, that might help me or something. So I really like that there’s a continuation of the program, but it’s not quite as I don’t know, in dedicated, I guess, to that topic. 

[00:38:31] Cheryl Crow: And it’s, and I can’t tell you how many times people say, this is exactly how I would do it too. They’ll say, well, I didn’t really listen to that part in the beginning when I first did the program, because it wasn’t a problem for me at that time.

[00:38:42] Cheryl Crow: So you, there’s a lot of information to learn. And so you’re like, okay, I’m triaging my, right now I’m not dealing with fatigue, so I’m not really gonna pay attention to that part. I’m not gonna watch that video from the course or read the slides. And then, you know, a year down the line, suddenly you’re struggling with fatigue and now you have this resource to go to.

[00:38:58] Cheryl Crow: And not just the [00:39:00] resource of my, you know, self-paced materials, but also the others in the group. I mean, it’s amazing what we learn from each other. And yeah, it’s been, it’s honestly been something that’s been a pleasantly surprising how many people are like some people are like, I am not, I’m just here to chat with my arthritis friends.

[00:39:17] Cheryl Crow: You know? But others are like going back and they’re like, wait, yeah, I totally forgot about this stuff. Or just apps or something. I stopped using an app to track my healthcare for a while, but then guava came along and people kept guava. And I was like, lemme check this out.

[00:39:30] Cheryl Crow: I’ll put a link to that in the chat. ’cause it’s a very, really helpful free app that syncs up with your health records and makes it a lot easier to manage stuff. You know, just learning about that stuff is so great and yeah. Yeah. Well this is so fun. I wanted to kind of zoom again to the big picture for someone listening who might be just on the fence in general about joining a support group, whether it’s a Connect group in the Arthritis Foundation, or whether it’s My Rheum to Thrive Group, or, you know, the, oh, I wanna mention Spondylitis Association of America.

[00:39:57] Cheryl Crow: They also on Spondylitis.org. They [00:40:00] are a great nonprofit. They also offer support groups and also some really fantastic live webinars, just like the Arthritis Foundation does. So, yeah, but what would you say to somebody who’s on the fence maybe about joining a support group? 

[00:40:13] Chrissy Livergood: Yeah, so I am very like, open book about my health.

[00:40:17] Chrissy Livergood: I know a lot of people are extremely private, like they don’t want anybody to know what’s going on. And I think that can be a barrier to joining a support group or I even was kinda like, I don’t know these people. I don’t know what I’m gonna do. Is this gonna be weird? Is this I cannot emphasize enough how much, like just being in a space with people who have a shared experience, like lifts some of the burden.

[00:40:48] Chrissy Livergood: Even if you’re not comfortable participating, just being in a place where people get it to any degree can be really helpful. And then it just goes up from [00:41:00] there. I totally understand the hesitation to get on the internet with a bunch of strangers and talk about your health.

[00:41:10] Chrissy Livergood: But I’ve been participating in support groups again since like within weeks of my diagnosis. And I can’t say I’ve had anything that’s really made me feel worse, both emotionally or physically. And I think again, with the cohort structure in particular, it’s really nice to be able to get to know, get a comfort level with people.

[00:41:35] Chrissy Livergood: And if you’re more into the fluid, like I just wanna come and go more arthritis foundation type thing, like that program is out there too. So it might be like some experimentation to find what you want and what clicks for you because, you know, people have different preferences. But I would say give it a try.

[00:41:53] Chrissy Livergood: Like even if it seems like a scary thing, ’cause I get why that would be. Intimidating. Intimidating. And you’re [00:42:00] dealing with pain and uncertainty. And you know, if you’re not, I think Cheryl and I are both pretty extroverted people. 

[00:42:08] Cheryl Crow: Yeah. 

[00:42:09] Chrissy Livergood: Maybe you’re not, you know, that’s not your default and you’re not like, I don’t wanna talk to people.

[00:42:12] Chrissy Livergood: That can be a challenge on top of a mountain of other challenges. But I would encourage people to give it a try and see, you know, if there’s a place that kind of fits with your needs and your personality. 

[00:42:29] Cheryl Crow: Yeah, a hundred percent. And you know, I think if we look at, you know, I also wanna acknowledge I have this little blog post I made called like a arthritis support group versus a myth versus fact.

[00:42:40] Cheryl Crow: And one of the myths I did say is, ’cause I’m trying to be like devil’s advocate, you know, and also be honest like that, you know, a myth would be the support groups are the best fit for every single person’s needs. And if you are in a really dark place where you’re not really, you know, you’re, you really some, and you’re not getting any mental [00:43:00] health support at all.

[00:43:01] Cheryl Crow: For some people it’s a better, you know, it’s the, if you have one hour a week to attend to your psychosocial or psychological emotional needs. You, it might be better to do a one-on-one formal therapy, right? Some people, you know, I would say if you’re at a place where you believe that no matter what you do or what you learn, you’re, you are feeling like crap and you’re always gonna feel like crap, then that’s we need to triage that at the most basic level and be like you would probably be better served by one-on-one therapy.

[00:43:28] Cheryl Crow: ’cause it a group, you know, a group is not the most appropriate. I mean, maybe group therapy by a mental health group therapy in that case versus this is a peer education, you know, peer support, educational support, and you know, so I just wanna acknowledge that. And some people just, even if they are in a

[00:43:47] Cheryl Crow: mentally healthy place where they’re feeling like optimistic about the future and stuff. They just don’t prefer learning or interacting in a group. They wanna get support one-on-one. That’s great too. You know, it’s not like there’s a [00:44:00] one size fits all, but if your reason for not joining a good group is based on things like myths that like all groups are full of misinformation or no one will really get it, then that’s, we wanna help assuage those get myths, right?

[00:44:13] Chrissy Livergood: Yeah.

[00:44:14] Chrissy Livergood: And I have to, I talk about this all the time, but I have to throw this out there. One of the very first things I heard, I would say like within weeks, if not a week of my diagnosis, was watch the places where you spend your time, look out for facebook group that’s full of doom.

[00:44:33] Chrissy Livergood: Yeah. And you know, I talk about there’s always going to be like crummy days with chronic illness. And so whatever we can do to not pile on I think is helpful. And, you know, that I think surrounding yourself with realistic hope and positivity, not over the top, but it can really have an effect on like our physical outcomes too.

[00:44:59] Chrissy Livergood: But [00:45:00] that, that piece about just like kind of watch out where you spend your time was important. And I think support groups, at least in my experience with Rheum to Thrive and the arthritis groups are not that just like Doom Spiral where people show up to scream and yell and I think both

[00:45:20] Chrissy Livergood: programs really focus on not, I guess debunking misinformation and making sure people have, you know, resources that are going to be truly helpful. So yeah, there, it’s a, I’m glad you brought up the myth thing because I think support group can come with a lot of preconceptions and at the end of the day, it’s like a whole bunch of people sitting around talking like this.

[00:45:44] Chrissy Livergood: That’s all it is. And I will say I love the cohort structure, but I also in the graduates group, like I have a hard time finding that hour in the middle of a weekday, but there’s a discord and I love participating in [00:46:00] there. So that’s you know, my needs kind of, force me into that piece.

[00:46:06] Chrissy Livergood: So it is not one size fits all. Like I’m still participating with the group. I’m still in contact with that graduates situation where I can talk to people. Yes. But I don’t always have to be like on when I need a break or I have something else going on. 

[00:46:23] Cheryl Crow: You perfectly totally anticipated what I was gonna say next, which is, yeah, one of the myth is that you have to physically show up or you know, on even in a virtual group and talk a lot and be a hundred percent on at every single meeting.

[00:46:36] Cheryl Crow: There are people who do the whole program, who never share their screen and they participate in the or they never talk and they participate in the chat. Or people who, the first six meetings, they’re not comfortable and then they kind of slowly get comfortable. Or people who can only make half of the live meetings where then they participate in the offline.

[00:46:52] Cheryl Crow: The Discord is just the technology that’s we’re using to have a private small group that, or a [00:47:00] community where you can continue connecting with the members of your cohort outside of that hour a week. And so people continue, you know, interacting there. And so I’m really glad you mentioned that.

[00:47:11] Cheryl Crow: And also, yeah, there’s a lot of the myths and I honestly, I’ll get patients, say my doctor told me not to join a support group ’cause they thought I’d be scared and because everyone’s gonna be talking about worst case scenarios. Yeah,

[00:47:23] Cheryl Crow: and that really depends on how the groups are facilitated.

[00:47:28] Cheryl Crow: You know, we in the Rheum to Thrive. A huge priority for me is that maintaining a sense of realistic hope. Like we’re not just Pollyanna, like everything’s just gonna be under your control if you just try hard enough and just think positive. But recognizing that some people have really difficult to treat disease.

[00:47:44] Cheryl Crow: Some people don’t get that. You know, wonderful experience of remission that other people get and we’re still gonna devote ourselves to like figuring out how to thrive the best we can in our situation and support each other in doing that. And part of thriving [00:48:00] is being able, in my opinion, being able to feel your feelings.

[00:48:03] Cheryl Crow: And even if those feelings aren’t comfortable, being able to allow yourself to let those waves of emotion go through you without feelings of shame or guilt and you know, and saying, okay, and this is my one wild and precious life, and what am I gonna do, you know, with it. Is kind of, is, you know, the goal.

[00:48:20] Cheryl Crow: And there really is, like you mentioned, a lot of the word support group is used very there’s no one meaning of the word support group. But I definitely think on Facebook in particular, there’s actually scientific evidence to back this up that Facebook tends to have the most misinformation on their groups.

[00:48:35] Cheryl Crow: Whether that’s for disease specific groups for cancer, or I did a presentation on this, like how to combat misinformation online. And Facebook groups tend to do, to have the most misinformation. So, you know, and Facebook quote unquote support groups. And so you just, you know, have to look at the source of who’s sharing stuff and if they have any sort of other conflict of interest or anything.[00:49:00] 

[00:49:00] Chrissy Livergood: And to be clear, this isn’t saying you can’t show up and vent. Like 

[00:49:04] Cheryl Crow: Yeah, 

[00:49:05] Chrissy Livergood: people have bad days. 

[00:49:06] Cheryl Crow: A hundred percent. 

[00:49:06] Chrissy Livergood: That is totally allowed.

[00:49:08] Chrissy Livergood: But, you know, making sure that we are not kinda like constantly going down the Doom spiral is Yeah. Part of, you know, being in a facilitated group.

[00:49:18] Cheryl Crow: Yeah. A hundred percent. And were there any other worries you would say people have before joining a group that you would wanna address or, we kind of already addressed them, I think, 

[00:49:29] Chrissy Livergood: yeah. I mean, I’m trying to think if there’s anything else. I, to me, again, being, even being extroverted, it’s just like weird to show up and talk to people about your health or am I complaining too much?

[00:49:40] Chrissy Livergood: You know, I grew up in that like system of don’t be too annoying or something. I, yeah, I just think, you know, it’s almost like public speaking sometimes. You know, am are people gonna be looking? I honestly, if I’m not facilitating my cameras off. That’s how I’m comfortable in a [00:50:00] meeting.

[00:50:00] Chrissy Livergood: I just turn everything off and I chill. I’ll talk. But you know, so I, I think there are plenty of valid reasons that it could be a little spooky, but I think, you know, we do lots of things brave with rheumatic disease, and that’s another one to try, you know, see if something fits. 

[00:50:21] Cheryl Crow: Yeah. A hundred percent.

[00:50:22] Cheryl Crow: I, I have a new background for those watching the video. Yeah. And it’s, we can do hard things. One of my mantras, so I I love it.

[00:50:30] Chrissy Livergood: I’ll say one more thing. I don’t think we need to be, you know, we talk about every person is an expert in their disease, but I think that can be like a little intimidating too, coming in and being like, I don’t know anything about anything.

[00:50:41] Chrissy Livergood: Somebody helped me. It’s hard to ask for help. It’s hard to say. I don’t know. And so part of the reason is to learn. 

[00:50:50] Cheryl Crow: Right, 

[00:50:51] Chrissy Livergood: right, 

[00:50:51] Cheryl Crow: right. And 

[00:50:51] Chrissy Livergood: so you don’t need to come in with md Right, 

[00:50:55] Cheryl Crow: right, right. Yeah. All 

[00:50:57] Chrissy Livergood: trying to figure, 

[00:50:58] Cheryl Crow: yeah. I think [00:51:00] that’s definitely a loaded sentence to say everyone’s, they’re just, you’re the expert in how your disease has affected you in your own journey, but you’re not necessarily the medical expert.

[00:51:08] Cheryl Crow: I certainly don’t feel like a true ex, I feel like a, I’m at the stage of like wisdom where I think it’s like recognizing there’s a lot still unknown about and about arthritis specifically. So, every day I learn more. So. Well, we’re getting to that point where we’re not gonna do all the rapid fire questions today because we’ve already heard your answer to all of them.

[00:51:29] Cheryl Crow: But I think sometimes our cha or our answers do change a little bit over time. So I’m curious, what would you say today are like your best words of wisdom for somebody who’s newly diagnosed with inflammatory arthritis? 

[00:51:42] Chrissy Livergood: Yeah, I, so this I think, actually stays the same and has been my mantra that life is different, but it’s not over.

[00:51:50] Chrissy Livergood: I, when I was diagnosed, I just fell apart honestly. And then kind of climbed outta that space. But I won’t deny like [00:52:00] something has changed and something like Major has changed, but that doesn’t mean that life is over. It doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy things. So that, that would be like, I think my big takeaway is, and I’d almost say like these diagnoses are scary, but I don’t know that you need to be scared of it.

[00:52:18] Chrissy Livergood: There are resources, there are groups that, that can really help. 

[00:52:23] Cheryl Crow: Yeah. I love that. I think that’s definitely a huge lesson to learn. And you might have to learn it as me talking, having had rheumatoid arthritis now for over 22 years. You have to keep learning that lesson over that life is different. Yeah. It’s not over. And what does it mean to you to live a good life and thrive with now ankylosing spondylitis? 

[00:52:46] Chrissy Livergood: I think my answer here has changed a little bit and that’s, for me it’s much more about kind of accepting it and I’d say my diagnosis does not define me.

[00:52:57] Chrissy Livergood: It is not, you know, my identity, but it’s [00:53:00] part of my identity. 

[00:53:01] Chrissy Livergood: And I think learning how to incorporate that into everything else that makes me has been a big part of learning to live with it and thriving with ankylosing spondylitis. 

[00:53:15] Cheryl Crow: Yeah. I love that. You know, you hit on my favorite word, acceptance, so.

[00:53:19] Chrissy Livergood: Yeah, I know that’s, there’s a couple times you’ve said things and I’m like, that’s acceptance. 

[00:53:24] Cheryl Crow: Yeah. 

[00:53:24] Chrissy Livergood: I know. But it’s I don’t mean to, to use it in like a corny or suck up way, but it is it just that has been a shift where this new diagnosis was a rollercoaster and I was really upset about a lot of things or, you know, like the medication challenges or whatever, and just being like, okay, you know what, this is just part of who I am, and that’s how we’re gonna roll through your life.

[00:53:49] Chrissy Livergood: Everybody has a challenge. Everybody has something and that is not to dismiss or minimize anybody’s thing that they’re struggling with, but for me, being able [00:54:00] to learn how to fold it into the bigger picture has really, I think, been a key to kind of charging forward and having that good life with their rheumatic abuse.

[00:54:13] Chrissy Livergood: Yeah. 

[00:54:14] Cheryl Crow: Yeah. And being willing and to adapt and adjust and not say, okay, well I can’t, for example, you doing the coast Classic bike ride. Yeah. You know, saying, okay, I’m gonna do it the way that works for my body now. Not kind of saying, well, I’m not gonna do it at all if I can’t do it the way I used to.

[00:54:31] Cheryl Crow: You know, 

[00:54:31] Chrissy Livergood: that’s actually like the perfect example of what I mean by it’s just folded into the identity. And a big part of that is learning. Or I’ll go back to life is different, but it’s not over. And this is a very difficult thing to learn. I don’t know that I’m fully there with everything, but learning okay, I can’t do things that I used to be able to do.

[00:54:51] Chrissy Livergood: How can I modify those? How can I find a way to do what I wanna do. And the California Coast Classic is a perfect example. Okay, I [00:55:00] can’t go run a half marathon, but I can get on a bike and I can ride that bike for eight days.

[00:55:05] Cheryl Crow: You know? 

[00:55:06] Chrissy Livergood: Okay. And it acceptance a part is a part of that too though.

[00:55:09] Chrissy Livergood: I want to do things I can’t, I have to, you know, find peace with that and say, but I do this other thing. So it’s not over. It’s, you know, it’s not all a lost cause. 

[00:55:21] Cheryl Crow: Yeah. Yeah. And learning how to unlearn that black or white thinking is definitely a plus. Hard. Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything else you wanna share with the listeners before we wrap up?

[00:55:33] Chrissy Livergood: I just, I cannot emphasize enough how how much both the Arthritis Foundation program, but also Rheum to Thrive have again, guided my a major part of my treatment plan. I’ll say that. And I have learned so much. It is really a, you don’t know what you don’t know situation.

[00:55:52] Chrissy Livergood: And so, you know, I would encourage people to explore it if you’re interested. Take it for a little test [00:56:00] drive, see what might fit. Because it’s and it’s interesting that you said some doctors recommend people don’t attend support groups. ’cause I feel like it’s, it flies under the radar a little bit.

[00:56:12] Chrissy Livergood: Like we talk about meds, we talk about physical therapy, we talk about psychotherapy, but the support group piece is accessible and it really can make a major difference. So that would be my, I guess my parting words is, you know, give it a try if you’re interested. 

[00:56:31] Cheryl Crow: Yeah, a hundred percent. And I think, I do think that the doctor’s concerns most likely I believe that they often come from those kind of the wild, I call ’em like the Wild West support groups.

[00:56:41] Chrissy Livergood: Yeah. 

[00:56:41] Cheryl Crow: Support groups. I’m putting in quotes. They’re not really any, there’s not no facilitator training, no curation of information, just. A bunch of people shouting ideas and misinformation and fear monitoring. And so those genuinely are not helpful in my opinion, but something like, you know, what the Arthritis Foundation’s [00:57:00] curating what I’ve done is, obviously I’m not gonna be unbiased, they’re meant to be an answer to those other 

[00:57:06] Cheryl Crow: Things. Yeah. So I don’t think that, I don’t think providers should throw the baby out with the bath water, just because some groups are not don’t have valid information, doesn’t mean they all don’t. And I hopefully that, I think with just an overall embracing of mental health that I’ve really seen happen in the last 10 years, even though these aren’t official, like capital mh like mental health groups, there is obviously a emotional benefit to, and to your psyche, to your mental health in participating in peer support groups.

[00:57:32] Cheryl Crow: I think that it’s kind of undeniable. So, where if people want to connect further with you, I’m of course putting links in the notes show notes to where people can sign up for the Room to Thrive program. Of course, they might be listening to this later, but they can still learn who’s currently facilitating and who’s, who might be available. But where can people find you online? 

[00:57:51] Chrissy Livergood: Yeah. I am pretty much anywhere on social media as arthritic Chrissy. 

[00:57:57] Chrissy Livergood: I have an a [00:58:00] blog@arthriticchrissy.com. So, pretty much anywhere you can find me. That. 

[00:58:05] Cheryl Crow: Love it. Love it. And she’s a good, she has a lot of good memes, so always feel 

[00:58:10] Chrissy Livergood: free.

[00:58:10] Chrissy Livergood: I love a good meme. 

[00:58:12] Cheryl Crow: Yeah. Chrissy and I have ongoing conversations in meme form across social media platforms. We have a lot, I can’t believe we didn’t talk about Taylor Swift. Well, good job us. I know. 

[00:58:22] Chrissy Livergood: I know. 

[00:58:25] Cheryl Crow: As Taylor Swift would 

[00:58:26] Chrissy Livergood: say, you gotta get it in there some way. But I too enjoy using humor to cope.

[00:58:31] Chrissy Livergood: So a good like chronic illness meme just makes my day. 

[00:58:36] Cheryl Crow: Yeah. I think people would be surprised how often humor comes up in the groups. Whether like explicitly like someone sharing a meme they found funny or just.

[00:58:45] Chrissy Livergood: And 

[00:58:46] Cheryl Crow: just naturally bubbling up like, isn’t this wild? What someone said to me?

[00:58:50] Cheryl Crow: And we just end up having, it’s you know, end up laughing. So, laughing together is a great bonding experience. So, thank you so much. I’m so thrilled that you’re gonna be the first [00:59:00] non Cheryl facilitator of this program. I’m really, no, I’m really excited ’cause this is opening the doors for, you know, more, again, more times that people can take the groups and more diversity of just facilitators.

[00:59:11] Cheryl Crow: I think it’s like a win-win for everyone. Oh, and I should say, I guess for the record, I’m not stopping facilitating groups, it’s just I’m bringing in more people and there’ll be different times of year. And it’s always gonna be like, you kinda have to check on the website and see who’s gonna facilitate when, because even when it’s been just me, I’ve always kind of changed

[00:59:29] Cheryl Crow: depending on my availability, I’m gonna do a group in this. I usually one in the spring and one in the fall. I’ve been doing, or three or four in the spring and more in the fall. But but so just always be sure to check on the website so I’m not leaving or anything. I am but I’m just bringing in more voices.

[00:59:43] Cheryl Crow: So thank you so much.

[00:59:45] Chrissy Livergood: Thanks. Thanks. I am really excited to be here and to kick off a new cohort.

[00:59:54] 

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