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Episode Summary:
In this insightful and candid conversation, Cheryl and Nikita explore the challenges and triumphs of living with chronic illnesses while thriving in life and heart-driven entrepreneurship. Nikita shares her personal journey of acceptance, self-compassion, and finding her center while navigating multiple conditions, including endometriosis, fibromyalgia, and Hashimoto’s. Their conversation delves into the power of mindset in managing chronic pain, the significance of self-love, and the need to let go of self-blame.
Cheryl and Nikita highlight the importance of community, finding joy in everyday moments, and the role of pets in providing companionship and comfort. Nikita’s journey is characterized by embracing her authentic self and recognizing that, while challenges persist, she has the tools to thrive despite them. Her favorite mantra, “Do what you can when you can,” encapsulates the empowerment of choices and resources.
Nikita invites listeners to connect with her on Thrive With Nikita and explore her podcast, Crafted to Thrive, which focuses on the experiences of entrepreneurs with chronic illnesses. For a supportive community and to hone skills for living well despite chronic illness, Cheryl also welcomes listeners to her Rheum to THRIVE program.
Episode at a glance / Main Themes:
Embracing Self-Compassion: Nikita emphasizes the importance of self-compassion in the journey of living with chronic illness. She encourages individuals to be kind to themselves and accept their conditions, understanding that it’s a part of who they are.
Mental Health and Coping Strategies: The discussion touches upon the emotional challenges of dealing with chronic illness and the significance of mental health. Nikita shares her personal experiences with therapy and how it has helped her manage her conditions.
Empowerment and Advocacy: Nikita empowers individuals to take control of their health and become advocates for themselves. She highlights the importance of being proactive, seeking the right medical professionals, and building a support network.
Entrepreneurship and Chronic Illness: Nikita runs a podcast called “Crafted to Thrive,” focusing on entrepreneurs with chronic illnesses. She discusses the challenges and opportunities in pursuing entrepreneurial goals while managing health conditions.
Self-Discovery: Nikita recognizes the growth and peace of mind that comes from embracing one’s authentic self.
Physical Well-being: Nikita mentions the benefits of Pilates as a low-impact exercise option that has improved her physical well-being and helped manage her pain.
Community and Connection: The conversation underscores the importance of finding support within the chronic illness community and connecting with others who share similar experiences.
Medical disclaimer:
All content found on Arthritis Life public channels was created for generalized informational purposes only. The content is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
Episode Sponsors
Rheum to THRIVE, an online course and support program Cheryl created to help people with rheumatic disease go from overwhelmed, confused and alone to confident, supported and connected. See all the details and join the program or waitlist now!
Speaker Bios:
Nikita Williams is an award-winning mindset business coach, certified professional essential oils specialist, speaker, and host of the top-ranking global podcast, “She’s Crafted to Thrive.” She’s been featured on Rising Tide, The Jasmine Star Show, and The Simplifiers Podcast. She was diagnosed with endometriosis in 2009 and fibromyalgia in 2010. These diagnoses inspired her to use her previous entrepreneur and corporate experience to jump-start her career as a business coach. She aims to help all creative women—especially those with chronic illnesses— share their stories and empower them to use their stories as fuel so they can be successful, create the life they deserve, and, most importantly, thrive.
Cheryl Crow
Cheryl is an occupational therapist who has lived with rheumatoid arthritis for nineteen years. Her life passion is helping others with rheumatoid arthritis figure out how to live a full life despite arthritis, by developing tools to navigate physical, emotional and social challenges. She formed the educational company Arthritis Life in 2019 after seeing a huge need for more engaging, accessible, and (dare I say) FUN patient education and self-management resources.
Episode links:
- Links to things mentioned in episode or additional listening
- Speaker links
- Cheryl’s Arthritis Life Pages:
- Youtube channel
- Instagram @arthritis_life_cheryl
- TikTok @arthritislife
- Arthritis Life Facebook Page
- Cheryl on Twitter: @realcc
- Arthritis Life Podcast Facebook Group
Full Episode Transcript:
Interview between Speaker 1 (Cheryl Crow) and Speaker 2 (Nikita Williams)
Cheryl: 00:00
All right. I’m so excited today to have Nikita Williams here. She’s actually one of the people I met in real life who’s on this podcast. For most people on the podcast, I’ve only met, you know, virtually. So, thank you so much for being here today.
Nikita: 00:13
Thank you for having me. You’re so right, Cheryl. Like, I didn’t even think about — yeah, we’ve kind of met in person. Yeah, totally.
Cheryl: 00:23
Yeah. Yeah, back in May in New York. So, can you just let the audience know real quick, you know, just where do you live and what is your relationship to chronic illness?
Nikita: 00:34
Yeah, I am located in Atlanta, Georgia. It is hot here right now. And I have multiple chronic illnesses. I have endometriosis, fibromyalgia, Hashimoto’s, some other comodalities. I don’t even — that’s not even a word — and many other things that are a part of this journey. I have had, I have arthritis in my knees. I used to be a volleyball player back in the day. And I’ve had two surgeries on my knee, on my right knee. And so, they like to give me trouble. But I love them. So.
Cheryl: 01:24
Yeah, well, and that’s, you know, a lot of us — you mentioned having multiple diagnoses — a lot of us are what one of the people on my support group called ‘autoimmune collectors’ or ‘chronic collectors’, you know, you’ve like got the full set, you’ve got endometriosis and fibro and, you know, that’s a lot to manage. And so, I know we could do a full episode, you know, on your diagnosis journey. But I always like to hear how people got diagnosed just so that other people who are listening might understand, maybe, if they start feeling, especially like endometriosis, there’s so few, there’s so little understood about that. I’ve never heard of it, honestly, until I started to be on social media. And then, fibromyalgia is misunderstood often, too. So, can you share a little bit about your diagnosis journey?
Nikita: 02:10
Yeah, sure. I think most of us never heard of endometriosis. Like, when our doctor said it and we’re like, what? What is that? What is that? For me, it was probably, it was the first year of me being married, I got diagnosed. So, right after my husband and I got married, literally the week after the honeymoon, I was in the hospital, like, multiple times for several months. My husband’s like, “Have you ever been sick before?” I was like, “No, I haven’t.” Like, I had the worst periods. But that was, quote unquote, what they said was ‘normal’. They put me on the pill when I was like 16 because it was normal. But my cycles were, like, intensified the moment I got married. I was saying like anyone who is, like, who has chosen to stay, you know, not sexually active until they get married, you have a rude awakening.
Cheryl: 03:11
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Nikita: 03:13
So, it’s something that I don’t think we hear a lot of conversation about, how your body does change when you do start becoming sexually active. And I definitely experienced that myself, and I think that’s literally what probably threw me more into more of my endometriosis, like, critical hospital stays where periods were just horrible pain not just during my cycle, but like the whole month. I felt like we used to joke around, like, I only have like a good weekend. Like, one weekend out of the month, I’m good. I was 22. And so, it took about, I want to say it took about two years for me to officially get diagnosed. But I honestly say this, it technically took me longer because I had these type of symptoms when I was a teenager. So, when I got that diagnosis shortly after I got my fibromyalgia diagnosis, because okay, we have endo, but then I was also having this widespread all-over pain that was just excruciating. But what I will say about my experience with getting diagnosed is that prior to getting married, I had gone through a very emotionally trauma experience. And I definitely think that had a lot to do with the fibromyalgia and also the endometriosis, because I felt like my body probably felt like it could finally kind of release. I’m like a, I’m a slow burner, if that makes sense. Like, I can get through the hard stuff, you know, will act like everything is fine, Nikita’s fine. And then, a week later, I am sick as a dog.
Cheryl: 04:56
It’s like that thing, like after finals week, everyone, you know, you held it together. And then, when you let your body relax is when you get sick. Yeah.
Nikita: 05:05
Yes, yeah. So, I definitely experienced that. That’s something I’m sure we’ll talk about later. But now, I’m very much more of, like, in the moment processor because I cannot handle that kind of, like, hurricane of life, pain happening all at the same time. So, anyone who is experiencing heavy cycles that you have to call out of work, you are at home, you can’t walk, you feel pain down your spine and your toes, like, you literally cannot move, you probably have endometriosis. And it’s something to ask your doctor about because they still — and it’s been 15 plus years — have not, it’s not one of the first things you hear about when you go complaining and worried about those types of things. It’s still not the first topic of conversation when you walk to the doctor’s office.
Cheryl: 06:01
Yes. And I just realized we didn’t define endometriosis for people who might not know. So, it’s when the tissue that’s in your, normally in your uterus, grows outside of it. Is that right?
Nikita: 06:14
Right. And so, it’s a whole system. Like, to me, it’s a whole systematic body problem. It should be classified as an autoimmune disease; it really should be. But for a lot of doctors, they will tell you that this is a reproductive issue. And it’s not necessarily true for most women. It affects everything. I’ve had a hysterectomy, because at one point in my journey, I just felt like that was the best decision. It did help some. But I still experience pain because of endometriosis, because it wasn’t just contained in my uterus. So, it is a whole body systematic issue that it really needs, we need more research. We need more information about this.
Cheryl: 07:02
Yeah, I’ve heard of cases where — I know this is a little bit more rare — but where the tissue grows, like, around even the colon or it’s, yeah, it’s not just, like you mentioned affecting the pelvic kind of —
Nikita: 07:15
Oh, yeah. I don’t think it’s, I actually don’t think it’s not uncommon. I just think it’s under diagnosed.
Cheryl: 07:21
Right. Thank you for that distinction. Yeah, that makes, yeah, there’s so many conditions like that. I think chronic pain is often under, you know, under addressed. But endometriosis as well, because at first if it presents with, you know, pelvic pain and lots of kind of PMS symptoms, it’s so easy for doctors should just say, “Oh, well, that’s just, you know, that’s normal.”
Nikita: 07:46
Yes.
Cheryl: 07:47
Yeah. Thank you for bringing awareness to that. I know, it’s not like a diagnosis that I have, you know, seen a ton of, but I know that it’s like — it’s so, like you said, I’m just repeating what you said. It’s underdiagnosed. So, yeah. And then, you mentioned that there was a psychological trauma that kind of preceded everything. And that’s so common for all chronic illnesses where if you experience something, really, any sort of major stress right can trigger it. And so, I love, like, before we chatted, you mentioned that you really love talking about like the mind-body connection. And that’s something that I love nerding out about as well. So, like, what do you — what has been helpful for you? Like, what have you learned about the mind-body connection that’s really resonated with you or helped you on your multiple, managing multiple chronic illnesses journey? That’s a lot.
Nikita: 08:43
No, it is. I know, it’s a tongue twister. For me, the mind-body connection is something that, for me, in the cultural standpoint, wasn’t anything that we really talked about, right. And as I’ve gone through this journey of learning more about my body and accepting my body, loving my body, appreciating that even though we have these days where, like we were talking before we jumped on, like, we’re exhausted and it’s not doing what we’re normally used to doing, it really is a way for our body to communicate with us. And if we are having this kind of conflicting, negative self-talk when it comes to our body, I’ve found that it makes things way worse, and makes it so much harder to recover. It makes it so much harder to even be clear on how your body is actually trying to communicate with you. And I don’t think I realized that until I started — until I always like to say, it wasn’t until I was at my, what I consider my weakest, darkest place, and I was desperate. I was desperate for something else to show me something else. And when I stepped into that world of learning a little bit more about the body and what was possible, I realized how much of a healing journey I needed to have with my mind, and my thoughts, and with my body, because for a very long time, I used to walk around and it’s like, I just hate my body. I hate this; I hate that. This is out to get me. Like, I had this very antagonistic relationship between my body and what I was thinking about my body. And I can say today that the biggest shifts have been from a change, a change of how I view my body and the conversations I have about it. And the worst of flare ups.
Cheryl: 10:57
I know, like, this is putting it to the test right now, because I know you’re having a bit of a flare up today. So, I appreciate that you’re here talking about all this. And I just, my first question, follow up question is like, did you learn — was there a series of, like, books? Or podcasts or things? Or did you go to therapy? Like, how did you delve into these topics?
Nikita: 11:16
So interesting. It started with essential oils. I know, every time I say this, I always kind of like giggle because people think like, “What are you talking about, essential oils?” It was a day I was having, like, ‘I’m going to go to the hospital’ kind of day. And I had just — a friend had just reached out to me, and she was telling me it’s possible to, you know, overcome and not be at the hospital every three months while you have, you know, every, you know, every other month, three times a month. And I was like, yeah, whatever. It’s just, “I’m gonna, I’m going to send you these oils that are going to help you.” And I was like, girl, I am on some serious pain medicine. And that is not helping me. But you’re gonna bring me some oil. So, that’s cute. That is really, okay, that’s really cute. So, we’re getting ready to go; I have a go bag. At that time, I used to have a go bag to the hospital, because that’s how often I would down. We just have a go bag. And I told my husband, I was like, “Just wait, I’m gonna try this oil stuff that my friend gave me,” who was an aroma therapist. She’s amazing. She’s a holistic nutrition. She’s all these things. She was also an endometriosis warrior. So, I had some basis that she kind of knew what she was talking about, but I didn’t believe her. And the essential oils, I put them on. And I had this relief of, like, just discomfort in my body. But my mind was calm. And I had never experienced a calm mind like that during a flare up that I’m about to go to a hospital. Like, I never, ever could feel like I had that, right. And I was like, I called her and I was like, “Dude, first of all, what’s in this stuff? And second of all, what is happening, like, what happened?” And she’s like, well, and this is this is why I went on to get my own certification in essential oils and aromatherapy is like the body and mind connection to pain and how we feel has a huge effect on how we feel what we feel. And I started researching and reading and like, she’s a coach. So, I started working with her more on a coach one-on-one. And then, just realizing I needed to not just have a healing journey with my body, I need to have it with my mind. And that changed everything.
Cheryl: 13:39
Wow, that’s, I mean, I love that you were a skeptic because I think it does — a lot of times with these kinds of alternative medicine type practices or complementary practices, people will say, well, it’s the expectancy effect, like where if you expect something to work, or you expected to find relief that in itself can be therapeutic. But the fact that you were skeptical and it did provide this relief is really fascinating to me. Like, I guess, I tend to, I try to consider, I try to practice like, I’m a kind of like an open-minded skeptic. Like, I try to be a little skeptical. But also, I don’t think being completely skeptical is really helpful for me long term, right, because I want to be open minded enough to be like, you know, there are so many things, there’s so much we don’t know about science, there’s so much we don’t know about the human brain. And, you know, why would I deny myself the chance of something especially if it’s not extremely time or money intensive that might help me feel better, you know what I mean? So, anyway, that’s my own kind of journey. But I do remember in occupational therapy school, actually, my master’s in OT, we had a class on like, kind of like the all the different alternative therapies, you know, or complementary therapies. Like, everything from, you know, from aromatherapy to massage. And it was interesting that when they — I remember they talked about — I’m sorry if I butcher this because this was like over 10 years ago, but about how there’s these little tiny, tiny little, the little openings of the skull behind your nose and right behind there, it’s like —
Nikita: 15:23
Amygdala. Yeah.
Cheryl: 15:24
Your brain, like, your hippocampus, which is like when you remember — that’s why, like, when I smell cinnamon and peppermint, I think of Christmas. And it is tied to memory, it’s tied to emotion, the amygdala, like you said. So, anyway, yeah. I love `it. Sorry, I just totally barged in with my story. But so, you were like on the verge of going to the hospital, and then you had this, like, experience. Do you know what the oils were now? Did she tell?
Nikita: 15:50
Oh, yeah, definitely. And I know what they are. These are the ones that I now use on a day-to-day basis. I swap them out; I recommend them to my clients as because now, I have my certification aromatherapy. So, like, they’re totally a huge part of my everyday life at this point. But, but I say this to say, because you were asking about the mind-body connection, what introduced it. Like, this particular situation opened my mind to this. But what I realized and the reason why I was able to earlier say like, oh, I had all of this trauma that I experienced before, all of those little links of like, how pain happened, how I felt pain, what I thought about pain, how I felt about my body was all wrapped up in a whole lot of trauma. And I would not have known that until I stepped into this, like, weird, what I call this like this weird place of learning about my body, essential oils, EFT became something I incorporate, which is Emotional Freedom Technique, tapping, just kind of like acupuncture with your fingers. And then, I stepped into this world of coaching which was more about personal development and a lot of personal development, as we all know, is surrounding your mindset. So, I really just kind of fell into this world. And I don’t like to say ‘fell in’, I definitely believe that it was led to this world that I’m in now to be whole, more whole.
Cheryl: 17:19
I love that. Yeah. And I had an episode, many, many, this was many episodes ago. A couple years ago, I had an episode where one of the people who was sharing their story talked about EFT, Emotional Freedom Technique and tapping, but it’s been a while since I’ve refreshed, or I’ve refreshed the audience on it. So, can you explain what does that entail?
Nikita: 17:42
Yeah. So, tapping to me — and everyone will give you a different kind of definition of tapping, but I like to share mine — to me, it’s like a release of negative or stuck energy. And so, as we, as you learn more about the mind and body connection, it is literally things we have not processed, we have not released, we have never said out loud, we have never — we have kept them silent, right. And we all grew up thinking and being told — I know I did. I feel like a lot of my clients has like this thought of like, don’t speak the negative out loud. Like, that’s horrible, right? But what if the negative is your truth? Like, what if the thing that you expand to, the thing that you feel is your truth, and you are telling your body and your mind not to speak it? Right?
Cheryl: 18:39
That would be very frustrating. Yeah.
Nikita: 18:42
And we’re storing that as energy in our body. And so, EFT is like going through different meridian points around your body that are very much in tune in helping your body to release. And it’s very scientific, lots of science behind it. But when you’re doing the tapping, you literally will yawn, you will cry, you will burp, you’ll do all these weird things that is just showing that your body is now releasing all of that stored energy that’s not really serving you, right. And that’s what I love about it. It also really helps with how you associate to pain. So, when I’m doing, like, recently, I’ve been having lots of headaches. Oh, my gosh, we don’t know what’s going on. So, that’s a whole ‘nother story. And lots of headaches. And so, one of the things it’s really hard for me to do is tapping because you’re literally tapping on your head and your eyes. But there’s another space you can tap which is like between your collarbone and your chest. And that tapping point has been so helpful to calm your nervous system. Really, what we’re doing as well is releasing negative energy. We’re also regulating our nervous system. We’re telling our nervous system, we’re okay. We’re safe. Like, yes, you might be in pain right now, and it might feelhorrible. But if it was really, really horrible, you’re probably at the hospital. And even if you’re at the hospital, you’re still, like, you’re still in a relative sense of control. We can calm, right. And our nervous system is meant to be in and out of the fear and flight, and rest and digest. And we are — all of us, not just chronic illness warriors, but especially chronic illness warriors — we’re constantly in that fear/flight space, and EFT helps you to flow. It just helps you to flow.
Cheryl: 20:23
I love it. I found a link on the Kaiser Permanente website, believe it or not, that actually has a little video. And it also has a just really simple instruction. I know that sometimes, like a trained counsellor or therapist will lead people through EFT but it is something that people might be able to just try on their own and see if it syncs, if it resonates with them.
Nikita: 20:51
Yeah, there’s lots of, lots of videos out there. I do it with my clients as well as a coach. It’s powerful. It’s surprisingl how powerful it really is. Another thing that you’re like, I’m tapping on my body, and this is supposed to feel good. And you’re like, yes, it feels great.
Cheryl: 21:09
Well, and it’s like, I love, I’m all about acceptance. Like, that’s like my big kind of, kind of been a big shift in my, I would say, like, my, I don’t know, outlook and mindset on life. Like, before, I used to be like, I was like, I had the athlete mindset of like, “We’re going to fight this, we’re gonna fight this and, like, make it go away. And then, I’ll feel better,” as opposed to be like, “This is what it is. I accept it.” And like, yeah, I can do things that support my quality of life. But I can also know that I can live with this. And so, it’s interesting that this involves like saying, you said, like, you know, it’s like, you’re not sugarcoating it. You’re not saying, “I don’t have this,” or, “The pain isn’t real.” You say, “I have pain, and,” then you follow it up, as I understand, with a statement of self-acceptance, or, yeah.
Nikita: 22:00
Yeah. And I think, and I don’t know about any, about all your listeners, but I feel like personally, there is this, something I didn’t even realize was, there’s a shame. There’s a level of shame around living and being like, quote unquote, ‘a burden’, because, you know, all of these things you have to do, all of these accommodations you have to ask for seek, or all of these different kinds of things. And so many times, how many times have our well-meaning friends said, you know, like, “Oh, don’t say that out loud,” like, “Oh, no, no, you’re not a burden. No, no, no, no, no, you’re — Don’t —,” you know, that kind of well intention. But if we truly feel that, and say, “I still love and accept myself,” what more empowering place where you go from there, versus being like, “I don’t have shame. I don’t need to feel this way,” when we actually do feel that way, you know?
Cheryl: 22:54
I love that. Like, I accept that I feel like a burden right now, and I know that I’m still worthy. And yes, you know, yeah, it’s so different than being like, let me convince myself from like a cognitive behavioral therapy therapy standpoint, here’s like five reasons I’m not a burden. It’s like, you can’t convince your mind when your mind — like, you can’t think — what is it… A psychologist said something really smart once, was like, you can’t think your way out of a problem that thinking didn’t get you into, or something.
Nikita: 23:25
Something like that. It sounds like it makes sense.
Cheryl: 23:28
Yeah. Like, was that a double negative? You can’t not think about a problem you can’t — yeah, but yeah, I love it. I love it. And I think everyone’s just, you know, I think I’m, you know, I know there’s a lot of listeners that have never reached out to me so I’m not — but I do have a kind of person in my head that I think of listening to this as we record these episodes. And I think a lot of times they know that people listening are looking for just examples, that we all learn through stories and examples. Like, how does you know Nikita thrive, and how does she do this? And then, I could listen to, you know, another person and try to compile, we all are trying to kind of compile our own coping toolboxes, you know?
Nikita: 24:10
Absolutely.
Cheryl: 24:11
Yeah. It’s powerful to hear other people’s — so, it sounds like you started with the oils and then you learned about, you know, the tapping. And then, learned about coaching or you received, maybe received coaching or —?
Nikita: 24:26
Yeah, I receive coaching. And then, I went to go on to school to get certified and all those different kinds of things so that I can become a coach. My friends will tell you that I’ve been a coach my whole life, I just didn’t know that was a thing.
Cheryl: 24:38
Well, and yeah, and so, I think that’s — I would love to hear more about that. And one of the things that I think is unique in your story is that you have your own business while managing your autoimmune disease, and that in of itself is no small feat. And then, you help other people with chronic illnesses manage their, I mean, wow, so manage their business, because you do business coaching, and probably like, you know, all sorts of kind of holistic coaching.
Nikita: 25:07
Absolutely.
Cheryl: 25:08
Yeah, so tell me more about all that.
Nikita: 25:10
Yeah, thank you for asking that. Yeah. I mean, this whole journey led me to doing the thing that I absolutely love. Like, if it wasn’t, if it wasn’t for a prayer that I prayed and was answered by my friend, who also sent me the essential oils, who also happened to be a health coach — I knew of health coaches, that totally made sense, right. We’ve, for a very long time, have heard of health coaches, I think. But what are you talking about a business coach? I had a lot of experience in different corporate environments, also helping small businesses and different kinds of ways to grow their business, marketing wise. I have had my differently kinds of businesses, real estate, community event, all these kind of different kinds of things. But when I was going through all my chronic illness stuff, like, when I say all my chronic illness stuff, I mean, like when I didn’t know what I had; when I didn’t know what I had, but I didn’t know how to handle what I had, you know, that genre of time, I was like, there’s no way I can work for anyone. And like, there was a point in my journey where literally, like, my coworkers would have to take me to the hospital, and talk about embarrassing. And talk about, like, just traumatizing in itself. I felt like I had lost all my power. So, for a very long time, I was always looking like, okay, I need to do something online on my own. My own time, my own energy, whatever. And so, I started off doing my business online as a digital marketer. So, that means I was doing like website design, and landing pages, and Facebook ads when Facebook ads were like a penny, they’re not that anymore, and all that kind of stuff, because I could take all of the things that I had learned from my previous jobs and things like that.
And one day, I was working with my health coach, and she asked me, “Nikita, why aren’t you a business coach?” And I was like, “Because I didn’t get an MBA, and I can’t be like a consultant?” Like, that’s not a thing. Like, that’s not my thing. She’s like, “You’ve helped many women already make thousands of dollars, and you’ve helped companies make millions of dollars. So, I don’t understand why you can’t be a business coach.” And I was like, “What in the world is this is she talking about?” Again, another thing, another thing I had no idea about. So, I did research. I went into it, and I thought, oh, there must be other business coaches that have chronic illness, there must be. Like, this is, like, such a world, right? I could not find a coach. I could not find a coach that was specifically helping — I work with women, but helping anyone that is, quote unquote, saying ‘I have chronic illness, and I have a business’. I hadn’t seen that. And I also felt like there’s this disconnect with, like, business coaching advice that’s so generalized about running a business, but doesn’t it include, like, what if you have a flare up? What if you’re in a hospital? What if, you know, we were talking about this before, like, what if in the middle of your week, your normal routine that you’re normally used to with your body, decides to flip? What do you do with all those different kinds of things? How do you market? How do you show up, quote unquote, ‘consistently’ when you have a chronic illness that’s like, all over the place? No one was teaching that. I didn’t know that. I had to figure it out. And I figured it out. But then, I was like, there has to be more people who want that kind of support. And so, I started having my podcast, which is Crafted to Thrive. And I was asking Congress, and you’re having conversations with folks about that, and it has just morphed into this business where I’m serving other women who are like, “I don’t know where to start. Because there’s all of this advice that says I should do it this way, but I’m exhausted. So, how do I do that?”
Cheryl: 28:59
Right. And when you say, you know, starting businesses, you know, it could be — let me know if this is wrong — but, you know, it can be anything from like a small, like, side hustle, right, so people who want — which is so, so many people with chronic illness want a side hustle because they want something that, because, first of all, because having a chronic illness is expensive, like.
Nikita: 29:21
Oh, yes.
Cheryl: 29:23
Yeah. So, I think when I first heard the term ‘business coach’, I was like, oh, well, that’s probably for people who are like, in like, I was thinking like executive business coaches, people who are like in Microsoft VP’s or something. I live in the Northwest, or Microsoft land. So, you know, no, it could be for just anyone who wants to, you know, start a, like, a side hustle. And I had a business coach who she’s an occupational therapist, so she understands chronic illness from that she’d had some health issues as well. But she understood kind of my condition and was able to fortunately, you know, her name is Melissa Lapointe, she was able to kind of — what’s the word — adapt some of the generic advice to say, okay, think about this, like, plan A and plan B for if you’re not feeling well, or, if I’m running a, you know, a support group program, instead of just saying, it’s, you know, 12-weeks, you can say, it’s 12-sessions over three to four months. And that gives me breathing room in case I have to cancel or reschedule if I get sick. Just all these little things you wouldn’t think of, you know, so having somebody who’s well versed in chronic illness, ideally, somebody who lives that everyday, like yourself, you know, can be so helpful.
Nikita: 30:39
Yeah, you’re right, Cheryl. Like, so a lot of my clients are, I mean, I have a client right now she’s in college for her PhD. And I can’t think of her right now, because brain fog is happening. But she’s a holistic nutritionist; she’s a Lyme warrior. And she has an amazing, like, knowledge, but to run a business while also going through Lyme has its challenges, right, and all the protocols.
And then, I have clients that are photographers, who are like, this is their side business. Some of them are wanting to transition from their side, like from their, quote unquote, ‘real job’ into this full-time, and they want support in that way. And that’s scary. That’s very scary for transition, especially for chronic illness warriors, to go from a full-time job where, you know, you’re getting the expected, quote unquote, ‘paycheck’ versus it’s ‘on you’, quote unquote.
So, there’s a lot of mindset that happens around that, specifically, only because we have chronic illness. Like, it’s not like, there’s added stuff because of that. And I felt, when I work with coaches that didn’t really talk about living with chronic illness and didn’t really take into consideration what that was, it was so, so much harder for me to find success, or so much harder for me to figure out how to do something, versus now, I have some coaches that have chronic illness, and they openly talk about it. But no one is like in the world, like, if you were to look ‘Business coach for chronic illness’, you might see like four of us. So, it’s pretty amazing. I love it. I love helping, because we are so multifaceted and talented. And it’s sometimes, we just don’t know how, you just don’t know how to make what the side hustle or this business work for us.
Cheryl: 32:32
So, true. And I read this great book, I don’t know if you’ve read it, by Elizabeth Gilbert called ‘Big Magic: Creative Living Beyond Fear’. You read that? Yeah. And I love that the part where she talks about the permission slip, how like — I’m so this way and or, at least my historically, I was this way, like waiting for the teachers’ permission to do something, right. Like, “Well, oh, I can’t start a business, like I don’t have the permission slip. Like, I don’t have the MBA,” like you said.
And then realizing like, you know, through through my own being, you know, coached by Melissa and listening to like some business coach podcasts, too, like the Goal Digger podcast with Jenna Kutcher, you know, so many great podcasts out there, and they’re like, you know, you don’t need the permission slip from the Universe, you know?
Put yourself out there, and I think that one thing that — sorry, this is like a little bit of a tangent but it relates, is that, like, my therapist pointed out to me once. She said, you know, your anxiety, my anxiety was all a lot about the future. So, some people tend to have a lot of anxiety about the past and, like, ruminate about what they should have done. Other people like me focus a lot, like, what about this? What if this? What if that? What if, what if, what if?
You know, my husband and I were joking, we had a plan of like, what if, you know, one of us breaks our ankle on the way to the Taylor Swift concert over? So, you have all these plans [Laughs]. And, and but then, like, so I’m thinking about, like, starting, okay, I’m gonna start Arthritis Life. I’m gonna start a YouTube channel, and social media, and a podcast. But what if people don’t like it? What if? What if they make trolling comments? What if they think I’m stupid? What if they say I’m ugly? All those things actually have happened, right? Like, “you must be pretty weak if you can’t open a jar,” like, the weird stuff you get on TikTok.
And then, you realize, guess what? Yeah, the anxiety is about what could happen, and then reality is just something happens. It’s not all — I’m contradicting myself. It’s not all the bad things that could have happened. A lot of those things did happen, but a lot of them didn’t, too. So, it’s like, we have to just get started.
And like, do you often find — bringing this back to you and your clients — do you find a lot of them have a lot of anxiety about just getting started?
Nikita: 34:44
Yeah. I have a concept that’s called ‘It’s not about if, it’s about when’, and I don’t mean that in like the, like you were saying, we might go to the Taylor Swift concert and my ankle will break. It’s more of like, living with chronic illness, there’s this idea that somehow, we can run our lives and our businesses as if we don’t know we’re going to have a flare up at some point. Like, my clients will be like, stressed out about that. I’m like, but you know it’s going to happen. So, why are we — why aren’t we making a plan for it? Why aren’t we —? It’s not if, it’s just about when. So, when you, like, embrace this, and this is, to your point, it’s very much about acceptance. It’s very much about acceptance and compassion for yourself in those times that, yeah, that happened, and you’re still okay, and you’re still worthy. You’re still worthy of this goal that you might have for your life, or your business, or whatever. And so, it’s like, I always tell my clients, it’s like, okay, so let’s stop talking about the ‘What if’. Let’s make a plan for the ‘When’, because that is something you have control over.
Cheryl: 35:51
I love that. I love that. And I think, like, I’m curious, what are some of the other things like, what would you say to somebody who’s feeling maybe overwhelmed or intimidated? Like, I want to start a side hustle or a business, and I’m worried about X-Y-Z? I don’t know, the Greatest Hits Worries, like.
Nikita: 36:13
The Greatest Hits. There’s so many though, Cheryl, like —
Cheryl: 36:15
One of my — like, well, I loved one — one of mine was that, well, someone’s already thought of it. Like, someone’s already doing it, you know, but.
Nikita: 36:24
Yeah, there’s always someone doing something, but no one is you. Like, nobody is you. This is something I talk to my clients about. It’s actually — my whole framework is called ‘The Real You’. It’s all about you being the most authentic you that you can be. And that is the most valuable piece of your business, your marketing, your relationships, is you. And if you stop fighting the you, the real you, the real authentic, deep down you that you embrace, and you learn to love and have self-compassion for, the less you’re going to worry about other people doing what you do, because you realize that there is not another you.
Cheryl: 37:09
Yeah, that’s so true. I mean, it’s like, the world needs more than one person doing each job anyway, right. Like, there’s, you’re gonna have a unique point of view as a chronic illness business coach, you know, than somebody else who has maybe a different — even if they had fibro and endo, they have a different life experience. Maybe their age is different, you know, you know, region, geography, and there’s so many things. Yeah.
Nikita: 37:37
And to the points that we said earlier, like, our brain does not know, like, it cannot fathom what it would actually look like if we were able to work with every single soul that we want to work with. Like, it can’t even get to that concept. So, we’re worried about something that our brain can’t even conceptualize the working with billions of people who are doing — like, that’s not even how our brain is working. So, like, if we embrace, like, I only want to help who I’m meant to help, which isn’t everybody, right? It’s not everybody. It’s the people you’re meant to help. And they’re meant to be drawn to you because of you. Like, all of the nuances of you. And I think, for me, for my clients, too, the thing that we work on the most is that we can’t deal with everyone else’s thoughts, right. We just really can’t.
Cheryl: 38:39
You’ll drive yourself — I’ve tried, you’ll drive yourself insane very, very, very quickly.
Nikita: 38:45
So, like, if you focus on what you believe, I truly believe that once you accept your thoughts and start working on your thoughts, what other people think of you won’t hurt.
Cheryl: 39:00
It almost reminds me of like that quote from Eleanor Roosevelt, like, “No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Nikita: 39:06
Yeah, well, I love that quote. But I also think the quote is kind of incomplete. Because I think that unless you think you’re inferior, that’s the only way that they can make you feel inferior.
Cheryl: 39:20
Yeah, yes. Yes. That, yeah.
Nikita: 39:25
Because I feel that way. Like, I think about this, too, my journey. Like, if I, when I first started going down this journey, I did not like my body. So, if someone talked about my body, or someone had any, like, even if they had positive things to say about my body, I would turn around and beat myself up about that positive thing about my body, how it’s not good enough, how it doesn’t measure, how it does all these things. But the moment I accepted my body, everything I knew and everything everyone else said became more neutral. I could receive it, I could acknowledge it, I could not have all of these feelings about it because I was confident in what I believed about my body. No one else can affect that.
Cheryl: 40:12
Yeah. Yeah, I love that. I like that it’s bringing it all the way back to the beginning. I think it’s so hard, like you mentioned earlier, when you feel that there’s almost like, I think, sometimes the metaphor people have used this like an internal fight with an autoimmune disease. It’s like, my immune system, the whole job of your immune system is to fight, like, foreign invaders, right. Virus, bacteria, like, bad stuff, I want it to fight. But then, it accidentally, is fighting against my own tissues. And it’s hard not to feel, like, angry at your body in those moments. But sometimes I imagined, I forget who gave me this idea initially, but that, like, my immune cells are just like, they’re like — oh, yeah, it was someone in one of my support groups — and they were like, it’s like, your immune system’s kind of like a toddler that’s just like, you know, they’re doing the best they can. And like, they’re missing the mark a little bit, but like, you can look at them with this compassionate lens, versus — and you can be a little bit annoyed. Yeah, absolutely. But also, like, you know, I’m gonna nurture you and be compassion — I love that you use the word compassion. That’s like one of the, that’s, I think, one of the most helpful frameworks, is like self-compassion, you know, and just saying, “Okay, this is what it is.”
Nikita: 41:31
Yeah, there was this, I can’t remember where I read this. And I keep thinking about it. But I read this thing about these babies that were born premature. And at the hospital, they would have them all lined up and at the night, like, the night nurses and things like that will come in, and the cleaning people that would come in, and it was, like, weird to the whole hospital, like, only the child at the very end really did well, right. And the reason why was because that baby was picked up by everyone at the end, at any time during that time. Like, they were always shown love, always shown that compassion, always shown — so, thinking about our body, in the context of that is something that I’ve kind of gravitated to, of like, even though it is, to your point, like a toddler, and it doesn’t know what it’s doing. The more I love on it is the better it will learn how to do its job than me hating it. My coach also says — one of my coaches, I love her to death — she’s like, “You cannot fix what you hate.”
Cheryl: 42:43
Mmm.
Nikita: 42:45
Love and Compassion is the thing that helps you to, like, really, like nothing really great in the sense of like the toxic negativeness really solves anything. It just creates more issues. But that self-compassion, that love, and that just understanding and like, also truth of like, “Yeah, I’m annoyed,” surrounded by all that love and compassion allows us to heal, to take another step, to see more clearly of what we might need to do to find more balance within our bodies and what we’re going through, versus like, red.
Cheryl: 43:25
Yeah, totally, totally. It reminds me a little bit of the movie ‘Inside Out’ where it’s like, she wants to just feel joy. And she learns like you kind of have to, you know, all the feelings are okay, and they’re all one-sided. And we can’t just force ourselves to feel one way.
Nikita: 43:41
I love that movie. Yeah.
Cheryl: 43:42
Oh, so good. You use the word ‘heal’. And I want to make sure, I want to — I’m very fascinated by the word ‘heal’. And, like, it means so many different things to different people. What does healing mean to you?
Nikita: 43:54
So, I, too, have a very complicated relationship with that word ‘heal’. And I have to like ground myself when I see other people use it, because I don’t know what they mean when they use it. I know when I use it, I mean that you have come to a relative sense of peace of mind, with acceptance of where you are, where you’re going, what has happened, right. And I say that because I literally can say, like, if I take who I am today, I still have endo, I still have fibro; I still have all of these chronic illnesses. But I feel very much healed in who I am living with this, versus 15 years ago me who literally had this. I don’t think I would be here if I weren’t on this journey of healing who I have accepted that I am, right. So, for me, it’s very much, it’s probably more of an emotional, mental healing of, like, this has come to. And I also do truly believe that my mind has a lot to do with how I’m able to cope with my pain and how bad my pain can get, right. I have definitely seen when I’m in a negative spot, that pain is a whole different kind of level of pain.
Cheryl: 45:23
Oh, so true.
Nikita: 45:25
So different, right? And so, that’s what I feel like healing to me is. Really, it’s about that love in who I am, versus who I’m not.
Cheryl: 45:36
I love that. I know what you mean about when you see the word, it can definitely mean different things to different people. It’s very, like, subjectively defined. But I remember what someone else I had in the podcast, I asked her what she, how she thought of it, but she would use it as well. And she said, the root word means, of healing, is to be made whole. I was like, oh, that’s such, like, to see yourself as whole. And, you know, and worthy as you are, exactly as you are, with your illnesses. Not like I’m a perfect whole person with this like little backpack I’m carrying that’s like these terrible chronic illnesses, that it’s like my burden to bear, you know. It is a burden, to be like, real talk, you know, but it’s also, it is part of you. No one’s perfect. Is there anyone out there who’s like, I have achieved — well, there are people who say, “I have achieved full health,” maybe they have, maybe there’s a few people out there and they’re lucky ones and, you know, yay for you. But the majority of people have some challenge, you know. Being able to see yourself as a whole is a beautiful thing, I think.
Nikita: 46:40
Yes, absolutely.
Cheryl: 46:42
Oh, and well. And this is such, it’s gone by so fast. I’m like, I’m aware of the time but I’m also, like, no way that can’t be right. So, but it’s time to get to the rapid-fire. What are some just kind of, you know, words of wisdom, or, you know, what do you like to say to people who are newly diagnosed who are in that kind of, like, overwhelmed state? Is there anything —? I know it’s hard. I have a hard time answering this question, too. I just love hearing other people’s answers.
Nikita: 47:12
My answer is, when I saw that question, and it’s like, my answer is to find your center. Learn what your center is. Learn how to step away and be with whatever it is that you have been told, or given, or knowing. Like, just write it down, jot it down, scream it out, dance it out. I don’t know what you’re gonna do. But, like, process it. I think that’s the hardest thing to do. But it’s also the most freeing thing to do.
Cheryl: 47:49
That’s almost like an antidote to denial. Because I think denial is so many people’s first step.
Nikita: 47:54
Yeah. Well, I mean, and that’s natural. I mean, that’s a very natural thing. I’m not going to like say, “This is what — I’ve never experienced denial before,” like, that’s totally not true. I’m just saying, looking back, I can say now like, even with my newest diagnosis with this Hashimoto’s, I did not experience it the way I experienced like my first two diagnosis with endo and fibromyalgia. It was much more of a, like, “Okay, this is what it is. I hate this, all of these things,” instead of denial, but if it’s your first thing, you will go through the Stages of Grief a lot harder. But give yourself compassion for that. That’s normal. Like, everyone does.
Cheryl: 48:38
Yeah, yeah. When you learn these coping tools, it’s hard not to then beat yourself up and like the past you, to be like, “Oh, you should have known this,” you know, that you would have, could have saved yourself so much, you know, angst. But it’s like, it is what it is.
Nikita: 48:51
It’s funny that you say that. I work with my clients, I do something, you know, they call it inner child work.
Cheryl: 48:56
Yeah, yeah.
Nikita: 48:57
But I do inner baby chronic illness you work. Like, I work with my clients doing that because, like, me, like, you have to give yourself forgiveness for the things you probably said or did to yourself because if you hold on to that, that’s not going to serve you in any way, shape, or form right now. So, definitely very true, very real.
Cheryl: 49:17
Love that. Baby chronic illness you. I love that. Yeah, I actually did with a therapist, a therapist led me briefly through a intervention. It’s called, like, Lifespan Integration and it’s really interesting. I hadn’t heard of it before but where you, like, do these really intense visualizations of going back, like, the you now goes back, like you close your mind and they lead you to this guided visualization where you then go back and like talk to yourself at the age you were at at different times. So, I maybe did this, I guess, maybe a way, similar to like inner child stuff. But it was like she had me go back, and it was so, like, unexpectedly emotional but I shouldn’t go back and like talk to myself, you know, when I was at kind of like a rock bottom point, and it was really, really helpful just to do it in a compassionate way. Not like in a [angry sounds]. Yeah, yeah. Do you have a favorite arthritis related or maybe just chronic pain gadget or tool in your toolbox?
Nikita: 50:17
So, Pilates. So, the reason why I said this, I know it’s not like, like a physical tool. But I have, for years, even after I had my surgery in my knee, I could not find an exercise that I could physically do that was low, actually truly low impact, that felt good and didn’t throw me into the most existential kind of flare. And Pilates, as much as days like today that I hated going, I loved doing it, and I love how I felt after it. And then, it’s the soft me, it’s the softest way of moving your body. It’s stretch and strengthen, and you take your time, you go at your pace, there’s no one rushing me. Like, it’s just one of my favorite tools. If you haven’t ever done it, I’d definitely recommend giving it a try. They’re also very body aware. So, like, your instructors are very body aware, they’re very — they pay a lot of attention on how you interact with your body and so that you’re not creating pain. So, that would be my tool. It has helped me come to a point that I can go downstairs better. I can, you know, walk longer without my knee bothering me, all those different kinds of things. So, that’s my tool. Pilates.
Cheryl: 51:41
That’s amazing. I want to try it sometime. For some reason, I’ve done, like, yoga, but not Pilates. I’ve done like dance classes, but not, yeah, so I’ve kind of skipped over Pilates somehow. Do you both favorite — I always love people’s like book, or movie, or TV show recommendations.
Nikita: 51:59
Um, oh, my gosh, what is mine right now? We just finishing watch it. Oh, ‘Is it Cake?’ on Netflix. We just finished watching this, so I can see if anyone else also — [Laughs]
Cheryl: 52:11
Oh, my god. ‘Nailed It!’ is like, my favorite show. But like I haven’t, yeah.
Nikita: 52:17
‘Is it Cake?’ It’s really good. It’s also very funny, because it’s just, I mean, it’s called ‘Is it Cake?’
Cheryl: 52:24
They make things, right, they present items that you don’t know whether it’s made out of cake or it’s like metal, right?
Nikita: 52:32
Yeah, it also cracks me up that they’re giving, like, half a million like a half — like, six figures like, $100,000 for like winning the stuff. And I’m like, can you please give that to the chronic illness community because we could use that. You’re just making cake and then cutting it and throwing it on the floor at the end of the day?
Cheryl: 52:48
I know. Oh, my gosh. And I, we were watching ‘Survivor’. And I was like, there’s always, like, often people who get, like, hurt or injured on survivor, but I was like, there needs to be like a chronic illness survivor, you know? Anyways, do you have a favorite mantra or inspirational saying or affirmation?
Nikita: 53:10
Do what you can, when you can.
Cheryl: 53:13
Oh, I love that. It’s deceptively simple.
Nikita: 53:19
Yes, it’s — and it’s also something hard to do.
Cheryl: 53:23
Yeah, it’s like there — yeah, yeah. I love it. I love it. Sorry. I’m not paying attention. What is something that’s bringing you joy right now?
Nikita: 53:39
We have a dog. And I, we have, I wasn’t a dog person. So, I have — she’s a pandemic dog. And I grew up with cats. And so, every day, me and my husband, like, try to count how often we say she’s so cute.
Cheryl: 53:54
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Nikita: 53:55
We can’t, we can’t even — oh, my gosh. Hey. Hey, baby. Aww. I can’t count how many times a day we say, “You’re so cute.” As much as she’s stubborn, she brings me joy every day. I was just praying about her, thinking for her, thinking for her today.
Cheryl: 54:14
That’s so sweet. This is Teddy. He was 2019. Yeah, but has been the best support through the pandemic. He’s a little — he’s, basically, we call him a living a living stuffed animal. He’s a little lap dog. He’s not super energetic, but he’s always up for go on a walk if you want, or a really cool hike. He loves my lips. He’s always trying to lick my lips. Definitely send me pictures of your dog. I love dogs.
Nikita: 54:42
I will. Definitely. There’s lots of them.
Cheryl: 54:45
And now, I know we’re at the very end. What does it mean to you to live a good life and thrive with chronic illness?
Nikita: 54:57
What is, what does it mean? Um… Power. I feel like I have so many tools. I never, at this point in my journey, there was a time in my journey where I never felt like I had any options. I felt stuck. I used to talk — I talk a lot about this in my episodes, on my podcasts — I hate the feeling of stuck. And now, I realize that oftentimes, if I am feeling stuck, I’m choosing to be. And that’s powerful for me. Like, to know that I have so many resources and tools to help me not be stuck because now I know of options, and resources, and people, and community that I just didn’t have before. That is what enables me to thrive.
Cheryl: 55:41
I love that. I love that. Getting unstuck, or finding ways around the feeling of feeling stuck. Yeah, I love it. Is there anything else you wanted to share before we wrap up?
Nikita: 55:56
No, this was so much fun. I enjoyed this. Thank you for having me.
Cheryl: 56:00
Oh, thank you so much for making the time. And I know that even people like us who, you know, talk a lot about our journeys and stuff, it still takes — I always want to acknowledge the emotional labor it takes to revisit. Yeah. So, thank you for sharing your personal story and then, your tips with the community. And where can people find you online?
Nikita: 56:24
Yeah, you can find me at Thrive With Nikita. And my podcast is Crafted to Thrive. It’s for entrepreneurs with chronic illness. We’re actually relaunching in August. You’ll probably be hearing this at some point, but it’ll be new, a little bit updated. So excited. Finally realigning. I don’t even say pivoting. It’s just like we’re aligning the show a bit more around all of the amazing entrepreneurs in the world who are living with chronic illness and building their dreams.
Cheryl: 56:57
Oh, that’s wonderful. And you’re also on Instagram, and I’m putting all her links in the show notes, which the small version of show notes is, like, should be visible in your podcast player. But the longer version is on the website, arthritis.theenthusiasticlife.com. That was the name I got in 2010 and when I first started a blog. I got the URL be enthusiasticlife.com. And I’m like, wow, that I’m glad I got that, you know?
Nikita: 57:28
Yeah, love it.
Cheryl: 57:29
But then I just added ‘Arthritis’ as like a sub domain, you know, thankfully I have a lot of friends in tech that helped me. But yeah, I wanted to make sure I mentioned that I also put — I haven’t mentioned this enough — that I also have, for those of you who have any people in your life who don’t like podcasts or don’t want to listen, they can read the transcript on the website. And then, the video of this will be on YouTube. So, anyway, thank you so much again, and I’m looking forward to seeing your new, your rebranding and everything in August. And I hope you have a good rest of your week. Bye-bye for now.
Nikita: 58:09
Bye, thank you.
Cheryl: 58:10
Thank you.
