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Podcast, Rheumer Has It

Introducing New Rheum to THRIVE Facilitators Gittel Aguilar & Eileen!

April 15, 2026
50 min read
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Summary:

If you’re newly diagnosed, this episode feels like meeting two people who truly get it. Cheryl introduces new Rheum to THRIVE facilitators Eileen Davidson and Gittel Aguilar, who openly share their own diagnosis journeys and what led them to their roles as patient educators and support group leaders today. 

Eileen and Gittel talk about why they’re passionate about leading support spaces, what those groups are really like (spoiler: welcoming, not intimidating), and how connection can make a huge difference. You’ll also hear gentle, practical advice for those early days like pacing yourself, adapting as you go, and redefining what it means to thrive.

It’s a comforting reminder that even with chronic illness, you can still build a full, meaningful life and you don’t have to figure it out alone. And if you’d like to join one of the latest Rheum to THRIVE groups, you can do so here. 

Episode at a glance:

  • 00:00 Meet the New Facilitators
  • 01:13 Diagnoses and Comorbidities
  • 04:35 Why Eileen Facilitates
  • 08:06 Why Gittel (GT) Facilitates
  • 12:09 Why Support Groups Matter
  • 15:27 Program Structure Highlights
  • 22:43 GT’s Teaching Style
  • 23:32 Creating Safe Space
  • 24:28 Alumni Group Exploration
  • 25:46 Eileen’s Facilitation Style
  • 33:42 Common Support Group Worries Addressed
  • 37:48 Importance of Diversity In Groups
  • 41:41 Reflections on Thriving With Arthritis

Medical disclaimer: 

All content found onArthritis Life public channels was created for generalized informational purposes only. The content is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

Episode Sponsors

Rheum to THRIVE, an online course and support program Cheryl created to help people with rheumatic disease go from overwhelmed, confused and alone to confident, supported and connected. See all the details and join the program or waitlist now! 

Speaker Bios:

Eileen Davidson

Eileen Davidson, also known as Chronic Eileen, is a patient advocate, writer, and speaker based in Vancouver, British Columbia. Living with rheumatoid arthritis and non-radiographic axial spondyloarthritis, she uses her voice to raise awareness and promote education around chronic illness and disability. Eileen has written over 150 articles for platforms including CreakyJoints, Healthline, and The Arthritis Research Canada newsletter, and her blog has been recognized as one of the top arthritis blogs by HealthCentral, Everyday Health and Healthline. Eileen is a co-host of a podcast called “Rheumer Has It” which dispels misinformation about rheumatic diseases. Since 2018 she has actively served on the Patient Advisory Board for Arthritis Research Canada and works as the Educational Media Assistant for the International Foundation for Autoimmune & Autoinflammatory Arthritis (AiArthritis). Eileen has extensive experience with support groups and became a Rheum to THRIVE facilitator because she understands how difficult it can be to find credible information online, and how rare it is to find real support with clear, trustworthy answers. No one should feel lost, confused and alone when facing a rheumatic disease.

Gittel Aguilar

Gittel is the daughter of Central American immigrants and was born and raised in Los Angeles, CA. She is a “forever teacher” who is no longer in the workforce due to her diagnosis of ankylosing spondylitis (among other comorbidities). Currently, Gittel lives with her parents and helps her mother with the caregiving of her father (diagnosed with dementia), even while her mother also serves as caregiver for her. She is on disability and is learning to manage her illnesses as best as she can—one moment at a time. 

Gittel is not shy about sharing her experiences with chronic illnesses: starting with undiagnosed chronic pain since the age of 15, finally getting diagnosed at 30, and navigating being immunocompromised on immunosuppressants post-diagnosis. She also shares part of her story as a contributing author to the book, Keeping It Real with Arthritis: Stories from Around the World. She finds joy in writing, reading, and, honestly, being chronically online. 

Gittel has been a member of Rheum to Thrive since February 2021 and feels honored to become a facilitator in 2026. She is excited to help cultivate a safe space where others can feel the same sense of belonging she has found by joining this support group.

Cheryl Crow

Cheryl is an occupational therapist who has lived with rheumatoid arthritis for over twenty years. Her life passion is helping others with rheumatoid arthritis figure out how to live a full life despite arthritis, by developing tools to navigate physical, emotional and social challenges. She formed the educational company Arthritis Life in 2019 after seeing a huge need for more engaging, accessible, and (dare I say) FUN patient education and self-management resources.

Episode links:

Full Episode Transcript:

Cheryl Crow: All right. I am so excited to have not one but two guests here today. We are going to be doing a deeper dive into the newest Rheum to Thrive certified facilitators, Eileen Davidson, whose name you may recognize from essentially every other episode for the last year. And then also Gittel Aguilar, who you might have actually heard from her on episode 36, which is the poetry episode from 2021 or episode 64, From Overwhelmed to Confident Gittel and Camille’s Story, or What’s in Gittel’s Coping Toolbox, episode 94, or Redefining Thriving, episode 1 72, or Mindfulness Social Media, episode 184. So this, thank you, Eileen, for coming back on your sixth time and Eileen for coming back on the more than we can count.

But if you do wanna hear more about either their [00:01:00] personal stories also Eileen’s personal stories on episode 31 From Devastated to Patient Leader. And then episode 1 42, what does remission mean to patients? Plus all the Rheumer has it episodes which are co-hosted.

Eileen and I now that I gave that brief overview of where I can find the deep dive, can you first at you tell, let me know, where do you live and what is your relationship to arthritis?

Gittel Aguilar: All right. Hi everybody. I am from Southern California, born and raised in downtown LA. My diagnosis that brings me to Rheum to thrive is ankylosing spondylitis.

Although I’m a collector of, like a lot of us tend to be. And I have more than that diagnosis, but we’ll just stick to that one for now. 

Cheryl Crow: You can, do you mind mentioning your GI as well? 

Gittel Aguilar: Oh no. Yeah, I have ankylosing spondylitis. I have Crohn’s disease. And then I also deal with depression and anxiety.

Cheryl Crow: Yeah. So thank you for sharing. And yeah, that was, Crohn’s disease is, a known cause of joint inflammation as well, which is something I honestly didn’t know till not even, [00:02:00] I didn’t even learn that in occupational therapy school. So that’s why I wanna make sure to mention that as well.

But, and what about you, Eileen, in case anyone forgot or this is their first episode? 

Eileen Davidson: I do have a fairly new diagnosis. That’s true. That’s true. I get to say it again. My name is Eileen. I live in Vancouver, British Columbia. My original diagnosis was rheumatoid arthritis, which I still very much have.

But in December, 2025, I was also diagnosed with non-radiographic axial spondyloarthritis, and I have a lot of fun extra conditions that come along with that, like fibromyalgia, osteoarthritis, anxiety, depression. And I’ve also dealt with women’s health issues, endometriosis, premenstrual dysphoric disorder, and comorbidities like hypertension.

That’s been a fun one to deal with. Just collecting forms of arthritis like Pokemon cards. 

Cheryl Crow: Yeah. Yeah, you are. You are unfortunately in good company as Gittel has actually coined Congrat condolences. Like 

Gittel Aguilar: that was actually a different member at this [00:03:00] point. I don’t even remember. But I credit them.

But yeah, congrat condolences. ’cause it’s that. Two sides of that coin a thing. 

Cheryl Crow: Yeah. Like it’s good that you got these diagnosis so that you can maybe have some of a treatment plan and some clarity about what’s going on in your body, but and congratulations that you’re in a supportive environment, but condolences that you have to deal with this now.

Gittel Aguilar: Exactly. 

Cheryl Crow: Yeah. Yeah. And to those who maybe new to the podcast or my programs I created The Rheum to Thrive program in 2020. I had started envisioning it in 2019 as a program that would be potentially able to be done in person in Seattle or online, and then quickly pivoted to online only during the pandemic.

But the idea is basically, I almost called it arthritis school or like an orientation program, but the goal of Rheum to Thrive is to lead people through this step-by-step curriculum of evidence-based tools to manage their condition. That’s in the self-paced course. And then we have the option of the Course plus support group, [00:04:00] which I have been facilitating from 2020 to 2025, and then last year started training a select group. I feel like I’m like in the X-Men or something. A select group of hand picked individuals who have done a lot, who have taken the program before and who were interested in becoming certified facilitators themselves. So that’s a little bit of the background to where, how we ended up, where we are today with you two gearing up to facilitate your first group, the two of you being the lead facilitators starting in May, 2026. So having said all of that, I would love to know Eileen first, what made you interested in being a facilitator, a Rheum to Thrive facilitator? 

Eileen Davidson: There is a few reasons. One, particularly that I can think of for myself personally, is I’ve actually hosted in-person support groups before and

it was a lot for me to physically do, so [00:05:00] I struggled to do that. And then other times it’s just been opportunities that just maybe weren’t the best fit for me. I was really appreciative when you put the call out for facilitators because I could still do my role as a support group host.

It’s actually easier on me as somebody living with arthritis because the work is already there and set up for me, so I’m not using all my energy to set up rather than I can use it to facilitate, because I really did enjoy being a support group host when I was doing it in person and for other various groups.

Cheryl Crow: Yeah. Thank you. And yeah, I just was thinking as you were sharing that, one of the support group facilitator is like wearing multiple hats, right? You’re part almost like coach, like health coach where you’re educating people and answering their questions and then you’re also like emotional support.

You’re facilitating emotional support and then, [00:06:00] and I think in your case, you’ve done so much in case people don’t already follow you on, chronic eileen.com. You’ve done so much patient education already in even an informal role just at through your blogs, for creaky joints and your own website that’s 

Eileen Davidson: Yeah.

Cheryl Crow: Great experience too. 

Eileen Davidson: Yeah, and I guess another reason is now you remind me, is I have been a patient partner in research since 2018. I’ve gone to so many rheumatology research conferences, been part of so many educational materials, created them myself, written them about myself. Everything else is, I’ve been a very involved patient advocate, so I have a lot of knowledge and.

I don’t like keeping it all in. And this is also an opportunity for me to teach others, which I do enjoy. So that education and awareness part, and it’s not just rheumatoid arthritis, I know of. I also work for the International Foundation of Autoimmune Autoinflammatory Arthritis, where we cover 23 other conditions, which I already knew about Crohn’s induced arthritis.

[00:07:00] So it’s oh, I do have no for other conditions too. So it’s just, it’s nice to use that knowledge where I can. 

Cheryl Crow: A hundred percent. And I think, I know both you and I have been, and I know Gittel too, been motivated by to some degree, there’s an intrinsic motivation to just facilitate a support group, right?

You’re just like, ah, the, I remember how I felt when I was first diagnosed, so overwhelmed, and it’s such a beautiful thing to be able to take that knowledge, support others, and the other part, I know lately you and I have both been a little bit obsessed with also helping people avoid the pitfalls of misinformation and scams and anyway, so I’m just trying, if you haven’t followed Eileen’s page lately, she’s been exposing some really good really bad.

She’s doing a good job exposing bad scams. There we go. 

Eileen Davidson: Am I allowed to say the B word on here? 

Cheryl Crow: Yes. 

Eileen Davidson: Okay. So I call it I am using my bitch side for the greater good by exposing misinformation and scams. 

Cheryl Crow: Yeah. So 

Eileen Davidson: there’s more to come. 

Cheryl Crow: A [00:08:00] lot more to come. And Gittel, sorry, I Now we got, I got a, I just was wanting to add a bunch of stuff to her, but please let me know.

Yeah. What, what made you interested in this role? 

Gittel Aguilar: I first of all just love what everything Eileen said, especially it reminded me of the whole like, yeah, there’s no gatekeeping here. Here, take all my knowledge. Here’s all the things I know. Maybe it’ll relate to you, maybe not, but at least you have something.

And I love that. For me, it was a journey of wanting, but not knowing where to put my limited energy and wanting to turn my pain into purpose kind of a thing. That’s another phrase that I’ve borrowed is not an original coin by me, but yeah. That idea was like, yeah, give me something to make this

not worth it, but at least like I can be an alchemist about it a thing and just do something about it. And then also, I’m not gonna lie, a lot of it also was because I wanted to take some stuff off your plate. Cheryl, I knew that you were very busy and I was like, I know that this is one area where I can hopefully [00:09:00] help.

And in vein, also, it was that if I help out, hopefully that’ll open up and expand your, the group’s reach to more folk for different schedules and things like that. Because I know that there were days that you couldn’t do, but I could, so then that was a big push for me as well. 

Cheryl Crow: I love that.

Thank you for mentioning that. And just as you’re talking, I’m also thinking about for both of you, having, both of you have a different background from me too, and that you bring that to your facilitations, so to tell you’re Latina. I don’t have that experience. You speak two languages, you understand a different culture from the ground up.

And Eileen, you’re a single mom and you had a really, you had have spoken previously about having, a High ACEs score, like a childhood adverse events, which I have literal the opposite. Like I have an positive outlier childhood, which has shaped me, but it also sometimes give, can give me a blind spot, right?

Sometimes I live in a little la land where everyone has a mom and dad that are [00:10:00] really amazing and supportive and I know that’s not the case. So I think not to unsell myself, I’m still a good facilitator, but having a diversity of facilitators is really important to me, regardless of my own schedule too.

Yeah. 

Eileen Davidson: Yeah and I would like to just add I’m not the touchy emotions like feely person, although I guess I am, but so I like the way that you describe the relationship between me and you, Cheryl, is where you’re the light and I’m like, the dark. And please your quote from your TV show, if you would just plug it in right now.

Cheryl Crow: Oh yeah, there’s if you are all, if any listeners are familiar with this TV show, Parks and Recreation, there’s a couple in the show, Andy and April and Andy is played by Chris Pratt and he’s like the Labrador Retriever or Golden Retriever, and then April’s like the black cat, and they’re getting ready for a Halloween party and April was like, there’s people will die. And then Andy’s oh, fun. And

Yeah. So 

Eileen Davidson: [00:11:00] basically it’s. There’s different variety of folk here to speak to. And it, I like it because it highlights that, arthritis affects so many different kinds of people and we can learn from so many different people as well.

Gittel Aguilar: Yeah. 

Cheryl Crow: Yeah. And oh, so you got GT you go ahead. 

Gittel Aguilar: I just wanna say, and Eileen, I am happy to be the golden retriever to your black cat. 

Cheryl Crow: I was gonna say, that’s why you too, I’ve match made you together because I think it, it’s a great, a great count counterbalance. And also I do think, like I, I know and I love myself, right?

I love my bubbly energy because that’s who I am. But I also know that at some people are not gonna want that. They might want a more either calm energy or more serious energy or more yeah, that really fucking sucks. I will still say those things, but sometimes, being able to offer different facilitators for different people’s desires is really important.

But one more thing I wanted make sure to highlight for you to tell is your experience as a teacher. Do you want, can you say a little bit [00:12:00] more about that? 

Gittel Aguilar: I’m actually planning on bringing that up as an answer to one of your other questions. 

Cheryl Crow: Oh, she’s so good. She’s such a teacher. I love it.

She’s yeah. Nevermind. Okay. Stay tuned. This, that’s a teaser, that’s a teaser for later. But so from your perspective, actually, I’ll go what you tell first. Yeah. Why is a program like Rheum to Thrive especially important for people with inflammatory forms of arthritis? 

Gittel Aguilar: This is actually where I wanted to talk about that congrat condolences idea.

Cheryl Crow: Okay, perfect. 

Gittel Aguilar: Because it is I don’t know if the word I’m looking for is rare or just hard to find. Sometimes people who really get it, and especially a lot of us, speaking of the whole black cat, dark humor thing, like a lot of us use dark humor to cope with this stuff, and not everyone understands that.

And sometimes it leads to more isolation and feeling disconnected from people. Like almost more of like the evidence of not belonging to this able-bodied world anymore, and so for me, the really big importance is that solidarity and the connection with people who get it. Like that’s like another phrase is you don’t get it until [00:13:00] you get it and until you get a diagnosis basically.

And even then it’s like you, I had undiagnosed chronic pain for 15 years, so even if you don’t have a diagnosis, you can still get it. Yeah. But yeah that feeling of congratulations is that not everyone can understand right away. Like, why are you happy to get this? It’s because I finally have an answer for something and that could lead to possible treatment.

And other people are like, so you’re happy to be sick? And it’s no, that’s not at all what I’m saying, but I understand that it’s hard to understand this it’s hard to get it unless you get it

Cheryl Crow: yeah, that completely makes sense. What about you, Eileen? Like, why do you think this kind of program is so important?

Eileen Davidson: There’s a few reasons. First and foremost, like any support group, why people are driven to do it and why they go to a support group is they at one point felt alone. So it offers, those people who are newly diagnosed till they feel less [00:14:00] alone. And those people who are, they’re not maybe recently diagnosed, but they have they know what it’s like to be able to give back to somebody who might be newly diagnosed.

Of course, the education part of it it helps fight misinformation. It’s credible information that you can find. Online by reliable sources, including Cheryl who created it, who is a occupational therapist and she’s has lived experience. She’s not trying to sell you something that will heal you, cure you, reverse you, things like that.

It’s thriving, living with the disease that is realistic advice and it’s also very relatable to us. So it’s by people who live with the conditions. So very relatable and I think because it covers all aspects of living with arthritis, from fatigue, sleep, mental health, to different kinds of arthritis.

So it’s very well put together and the, when I remember when I was first diagnosed [00:15:00] in 2015, I was, this was before Zoom classes and things. So there’s a program at the arthritis clinic, and I have to go pick all these different days to go downtown, go to this class, probably on a bad day, and it was exhausting.

It would take, just going to that class would then make me exhausted later. So it’s just really convenient to have it all in one program. 

Cheryl Crow: Yeah, that was definitely my goal in designing it and having it be, in case I didn’t explain this earlier there is a prerecorded self-paced course that, that’s leads people through the Rheum to Thrive framework, which it’s a, it’s an acronym.

We love acronyms. But the T is tools for pain and fatigue. The H is helpful slash healthy habits like nutrition, sleep and exercise. The R is relationships and social life. The I of Thrive is inner world, so stress management, coping, the V is values and valued [00:16:00] activities. And then the E is executive functions.

That’s like the symptom tracking, adulting, stuff like that. 

Eileen Davidson: And also the really cool part is i’ve noticed, like when I went to those sessions at the arthritis clinic that I was going to, you were not really allowed to talk to people during the sessions about what you were learning or how you would actually apply it to your life and things.

You’re given the short frame time and you weren’t. I remember a lot of people wanted to talk to me ’cause I just started blogging and stuff at that point, and I remember the facilitator of those educational groups, the social worker, he was just like getting annoyed. He’s Nope, we gotta move on.

So I actually appreciate the way that you’ve done it so that you can have the education. Okay. You know what you would want to ask question wise or maybe. How can I apply that to my life if I have this so and so barrier because of my arthritis, you can actually talk to other people about it. It’s just not just taking that information that you’ve done in the program, but then a discussion because it’s usually each group is different [00:17:00] parts of the module. You can get a little bit more, especially if you’re kinda lost and confused on something that maybe that was said or you just want some advice on how that can actually maybe apply to your life.

So there’s many reasons why I like the structure of it gives time for patients to actually communicate. 

Cheryl Crow: I uhhuh. Yeah. A hundred percent. GT what would you add or, yeah, 

Gittel Aguilar: I was like, that is such a good point. Oh yeah. I forgot to say that at the beginning. I go by Gittel or GT. Either one is fine. Yeah. But yeah, that is such a, oh no brain fog.

Hold on. That was such a great point. Eileen reminded me what your point was. It was so good. 

Eileen Davidson: It’s like very well classed. 

Gittel Aguilar: Oh, yes, I got it. Yes. Thank you so much. No, it was the, when you were saying like you couldn’t talk to other people and things like that, I was like, another reason why I really value the support group is because it makes the abstract, like hypothetical, don’t like a concrete way of thinking about different people who are dealing with this stuff. Like it’s not just me and like people I read about in books and stuff like that. It’s me and all these people in the group, [00:18:00] and we’ve talked about this before, where, when it comes to giving yourself grace and self-compassion, sometimes it’s way easier to do that to other people than to yourself.

But I’ll turn it around when I feel myself being hard on myself and be like is this something that I would say to Cheryl or to Eileen or to like, fill in the blank person that I know from group. If I would never say these things to them, why am I thinking them about myself? And that has really been invaluable as well.

Part of joining a support group. 

Cheryl Crow: I was totally, I was thinking as you said that it’s almost like a badge that you earn, like the first time you bring up something to the group and you’re like, I feel like I’m really, I you have a negative thought about yourself, you’re like, oh, I don’t know why it’s so hard for me to figure out my fatigue and everyone else is it’s hard ’cause it’s hard. It’s not hard ’cause you’re doing it wrong. Like none of us have a hundred percent handle on our pain or fatigue all the time unless you’re in remission, in which case amazing. But so that the normalization of the symptoms or the [00:19:00] phenomenon we’re going through, and like you said, I’ve said, I’ve thought the same thing too.

I can’t tell you how many times in the last six years of doing these groups. I’ve been saying something to someone else, and as I say it, I’m like, I need to say this to myself. This is so much nicer than how I treat myself in my own head. So I love that. And yeah, the, just to get to the, a little tiny bit of granular level, there is like a suggested video or videos of the week that people can watch on their own time prior to the meeting and then on, on the topic of the week.

And like Eileen said, then they can come prepared to the live meeting to use that precious, like live time we have. To problem solve through it, because it’s, yeah. A lot of times if you’re thinking about patient education, people are just given these lists. Do this, don’t do that, don’t do that.

And it’s okay, what’s, how? Like every, how do we actually implement this in our lives? And having an accountability partner too, in the group through the facilitator and the group members has been really great. There’s people who are like, okay, I’m gonna tell you all next week.

I, walked one mile a [00:20:00] day, at least three days in the week. And then I’m gonna, I want you guys to hold me accountable next week. We’re gonna check in, or whatever the goal is and speak. Speaking of that, is there anything that you wanted to share that, that stood out to you?

Although Eileen, first, when you co-facilitated, this seems like a long time ago now, but you co-facilitated of the cohort. That was September, 2025 to January, 2026. Did anything stand out to you in terms of your experience co-facilitating it or what you saw that participants gain from it?

Eileen Davidson: I’ll say what I gained having a co-facilitator was being able to give myself grace and not feeling bad for having to cancel a meeting if my disease was being bumpy or I knew I was gonna flare ’cause I had a busy time. That was fantastic to have, Gittel and Chrissy, be able to be backups for me.

’cause even though we want to be facilitators all the time, it is hard ’cause we are also people living with the condition. But for the participants, I think it was, they always. [00:21:00] Usually start off really quiet and timid of each other first, and then eventually they start to warm up and then get to know each other.

They maybe will pair with somebody or another two people, whatever and make friends. They’ll share advice that they’ve, just things that they’ve never really been able to talk to about to anyone else, or hear people explain things in words that they didn’t know how to put together. So there’s just many different many benefits for people to be in either a single facilitator or a co-facilitator session.

Cheryl Crow: Yeah I love that. I resonate with that a lot, having done it myself alone for a long time. I also definitely loved having, multiple people if nothing else. And just for the brain fog moments where you’re like, wait, what was I gonna say? Yeah. GT, what stood out to you about your experience?

Gittel Aguilar: Oh, yeah. Whenever I try to do this, I’m always like, how does Cheryl do this? She does it all. But no, what stood out to me with the actual members of the group was watching them, as Eileen was saying, go [00:22:00] from like quiet to engaged, to go from like this place where they felt like they gained ownership over their experiences and what was happening to them and self-assurance about it.

And then also because of the group having validations and validation and reassurance, so it was beautiful watching that happen. Like it almost like a cocoon to a butterfly, thing, and it’s not to say oh, it’s over. You graduated and you don’t have to deal with these problems ever again.

But it’s more like, and now next time that this problem happens, I might have a game plan or I can remember what happened last time, or I can reach out to people from my group and ask them how they handled it. And it’s just, it’s really fantastic. 

Cheryl Crow: I love that. And, next question is on to like facilitation style and what kind of environment you try to create for the people in the groups at Should tell first.

Now I can see what. Teachers. 

Gittel Aguilar: I’m like, this is where the middle school teacher experience comes in for sure. Yes. And one of the [00:23:00] things, so I taught seventh grade, which are like the middle children of middle school. And we would also use a phrase, the kids that we love the most, right? Because the better phrase would’ve been like the kids who need the most love.

Who need that attention? Who need that? But one of the most valuable things that I learned was a differentiation for these students and knowing that not everyone is at the same place and everyone does need a different approach and a different style, and learning to be flexible in that. So learning that it really does depend on the group vibe.

Like sometimes you’ll get a group that is very chatty, just everybody wants to contribute and everyone wants to share, and then you’ll have other groups where that’s not the case. And I am willing and ready to like just keep talking until somebody else does, like that kind of thing.

But it’s just, yeah, that flexibility and approach and I hesitate to say this is what I want to do, but as. It’s saying I’m a good whatever. It’s no, somebody else has to tell you that. You can’t claim it for yourself. [00:24:00] But I definitely try to create an environment like that’s a safe space where you feel safe being vulnerable.

Like in my classroom, like the, there was no such thing as a dumb question, like that kind of thing where it’s no. If you have the question, most likely somebody else does, and you actually have the bravery to bring it up. So just letting. For me my approach, my style is more like letting the group show me what kind of approach they need and then myself adapting to it.

Cheryl Crow: I love that. And I just would add that, so we’ve had, for the last five years, there’s been a group that just organically evolved that’s called the graduates group, the alumni group. So for people who after their initial 14 week group experience, they say, some of the people are like, I’m good, I’m equipped, I’m empowered, I’m ready to

or I don’t have any more time to spend on this, I’m gonna go live my life. That’s awesome. Or if you’re like, Hey, I wanna keep checking in with this wonderful group of like-minded individuals we have an ongoing alumni group that meets once a week. And so [00:25:00] in that group you have filled in for me numerous times, before I even had a full training program and I think it’s always evident that or it’s been evident to me even within the context of you as a group member, but also as like a leader and facilitator. Now that you do have that just, you have that forever teacher like perspective, and that just. Calm, open-minded, warm, loving, supportive, vibe, which is just, it’s so great because one of my professors in occupational therapy school his all his research is around something called mood contagion or emotional contagion and how we all affect each other’s moods.

And I think that’s an fascinating thing to experience in a group process where we all do affect each other. So you help set the tone. Thank you for that. Now, Eileen? What is your facilitation style? How would you describe it? Or, and the environment you try to create? 

Eileen Davidson: I generally like to make sure that everyone has space to share, which can be a little bit difficult as a [00:26:00] facilitator because you do have to play timekeeper and, always trying to make sure that people feel like they’ve had the opportunity to share and see what they want to say. But also understanding if it’s a larger group, we’re gonna have to keep things a little bit shorter I guess by the book, in that case, I would say, but also I like to keep mine very informative given that I have, I’m a research nerd, so I soak up all this information. I like to be respectful of differences in people. We’re all different. Arthritis affects different kinds of people.

I also usually like to throw in a little bit of dark humor, of course. And I think it’s also really important as a facilitator to allow people to feel the emotions and pivot when needed. So somebody’s having more of I don’t wanna, like they’re having emotions that, strong emotions that are coming out from one of the questions or something that comes up during the meeting.

It’s okay to take a few extra moments [00:27:00] and just let them feel it and just support them and however, which way we can. So yeah, I just think that’s a really important approach to also take it. So again, like what should tell said is just read the room, see what the vibe is.

No session’s the same.

Cheryl Crow: Exactly, and I was thinking, as you said, dark humor that both you and Gittel and I all three of us, we and Chrissy, who is also facilitating a group currently, we all use humor in different ways. Like maybe Eileen, yours is a little more dark humor, but, and, but Gittel you’re like a meme queen too.

Like you have a lot of great memes on hand. We sometimes communicate in the chat during the support group session, we’ll communicate via memes. And it’s, that’s a fun, that’s a fun thing. And I know you, Eileen, earlier you said you’re not like the most touchy feely person, but you’re always compassionate.

And supportive, which I think is, it just comes out with your own personality flavor, right? 

Eileen Davidson: Yeah.

Cheryl Crow: Yeah. 

Eileen Davidson: Or all, all different, it just ’cause I’m not warm and fuzzy doesn’t mean I’m not a nice person. 

Cheryl Crow: No, you’re, yeah, you’re extremely [00:28:00] empathetic, extremely compassionate, and I think that compassionate comes in just different flavors and different colors and yeah.

Gittel Aguilar: And that once again reminds me of my classroom experience because I had the fortune of having a co-teacher. So I was the english language arts, history and health teacher. And then my partner teacher was a math and science teacher, and we had what Eileen and I have going on, like the students knew if they wanted someone that was more warm and fuzzy, that someone that was gonna spend a little more time talking it out with them and their feelings, they would come to Ms. Aguilar. But if they wanted someone that was just like i’m gonna get to it. No, I don’t want that warm and fuzzy stuff. Just like direct to the point they went to Ms. Kelly and that was it. It is just great to have those, like diversity of that. Yeah. 

Cheryl Crow: I love that. And is there anything else either of you would wanna say about your, how your past experiences have helped you as a facilitator for Rheum to Thrive?

Gittel, maybe, I don’t know if you had anything else to say. ’cause I feel like you covered it nicely already. [00:29:00] 

Gittel Aguilar: Just it’s been really good being on both sides of it, so having been a member and a participant and then becoming like a, I like, I feel like I did like steps and then the next step I did was I was like a fly in the wall participant for some of your groups.

To just yeah, fill it in and help it out. And the next I started like like facilitating whenever you weren’t there and I’m like getting there to this certified facilitator role. 

Cheryl Crow: Yeah. Yeah, that totally, yeah, that makes sense. Actually, yes. When I was saying that I was now having a training program for new facilitators, someone reached out to me who I know would be a good facilitator, but they haven’t even done the program yet.

So I said, I would love you to first join so that you really understand this is a unique program. It’s, there’s something else really like it that I’m aware of out there. So I’d wanna make sure you completely understood, that this is. I know it’s good for most people ’cause that’s the feedback we get.

But but yeah, you’re definitely become, you’ve been an integral part of it and now that I’ve been doing it for six years, I’m not making as many changes as I did in the beginning, but the first few years [00:30:00] I was really iterating and changing the program based on feedback from people in the group.

So in that sense, it’s been a little bit, quote unquote co-created right. With the feedback from the group members, which has been cool. Couple last questions before we wrap up. For someone listening, maybe Eileen, first for someone listening who’s on the fence about whether or not to join the support group specifically what would you want them to know?

Eileen Davidson: I think that they won’t really know unless they try it and they might be surprised that they will enjoy it and that they will get benefits out of it, that they would also be surprised they get and won’t, probably wouldn’t expect. 

Cheryl Crow: That’s a great point. Yeah. What about you, Gittel? 

Gittel Aguilar: I wanted to point out that you can be as involved as you want in these groups, so I really appreciate like sometimes.

No, this camera’s not turning on, the camera’s staying off. [00:31:00] Sometimes I am in bed and I turn the camera horizontal, right? Like sometimes I just participate in the chat and not in the actual, like there, I feel like there are just so many options. Oh. Watching replays. ’cause you give the, give us the replays of all the meetings.

So sometimes if I’m unable to make it to a meeting it’s almost like my comfort show to watch the replays. And then it oh, and also we have, sorry, so many things. And then we also have access to the Discord group or the same thing where it’s like there, I still have access to my community and I don’t need to wait until a meeting in order to.

Talk to anybody or ask questions, or sometimes it’ll even be like, I want to bring this up at the next meeting. And it’s like the, my accountability part, so all of that versus what Eileen was talking about earlier, where an in-person commitment is can be very challenging, right? Like sometimes I use all my spoons just getting ready and doing the commute, and by the time I actually get there, I’m like, I don’t wanna be here.

I wanna go back home and lie down, and now it’s [00:32:00] like I’m not even gonna be engaged and able to participate the way that I want. But guess what? With this group, I can be in bed laying down and still participate and be part of this. So I really appreciate that. 

Cheryl Crow: Yeah, we definitely have, there’s no requirement to have your screen, your video on or off.

There’s no requirement to talk, and it’s funny, one of the most everyone in the group has been so lovely, and one person who is, a little bit. On the shy side, she told me at the end somebody who had ended up participating a lot and contributing a lot to the group.

She said, when I signed up for this, I was nervous. And I told myself, you don’t have to talk at all. You don’t have to talk at any of the meetings. And she was not planning on ever sharing in the meeting. She ends up, I’m not saying this will happen for everyone, but she ended up feeling really comfortable after a couple weeks and she really surprised herself how much she ended up sharing and connecting.

And I think it was because when people think about a support group, a lot of times they think about what they themself are gonna have to share about themself, which, first of all, you’re never required to share anything, but [00:33:00] it’s what ends up being so therapeutic often is you responding to others so you listen to someone else’s story. And then if you have something helpful or supportive to share to them, it’s therapeutic to you, even though you’re not quote unquote, like receiving help in that moment explicitly. Does that make sense? 

Gittel Aguilar: I love that. And sometimes it’s not even help, it’s just solidarity. Like the number of times that we’ll hear that, where we’re just like, I’m sorry, I don’t have any advice or anything.

I just want to say I’ve been there too. And it was very difficult. And I’m sorry that you’re going through it too. Like just hearing those words is so meaningful. 

Cheryl Crow: Yeah, a thousand percent. And Eileen, you already answered that. Sorry I got off on my schedule here a little bit.

Last one, before we go to the rapid fire, what are some common worries that you’ve seen. I guess I already addressed one, which is I’m gonna have, they’re gonna make me talk or go around the circle and everyone has to say something. It’s not that kind of group. Some groups are like that.

But yeah. And what are some of the common worries you’ve seen [00:34:00] that people have before joining a group like this and what usually maybe happens instead? Eileen. 

Eileen Davidson: I think I would say the most common thing I myself felt, and I would think other people be thinking is that they’re gonna ask something stupid.

But that’s very, that’s never the case. Like everybody needs to know. There’s so much misinformation out there. If you’re curious about what the people are saying, that’s, you’re not being stupid, you’re just being curious. Yeah. So there is no wrong question. And then also if people are like, afraid that they don’t have answers or they don’t know the terminology yet, it’s, they have to realize that they’re learning.

And they’ll eventually get it all. Yeah. 

Cheryl Crow: Absolutely. Yeah. What would you add to that Gittel? 

Gittel Aguilar: That reminds me of some of our first groups where we were like, oh, some of us feel like freshmen, like newly diagnosed. I have no idea. Like some of us feel like the wise fools of sophomores, and some of us felt like [00:35:00] juniors just going through it and then seniors were like, I’ve been doing this for a while now.

I it still sucks and I still need help and everything, but. I don’t feel like a freshman, and so having the, again that different diversity of voices and experiences is great. And for me to use phrases, once again, it’s my whole ignorance is bliss versus knowledge is power kind of thing.

Like I understand the hesitation of not wanting to join this be and wanting to. Bury your head in the sand or put your blinders up and say Ignorance is bliss. I don’t want to deal with this stuff, and unfortunately our bodies are like, too bad, so sad. You’re gonna deal with it regardless whether you want to or not.

And so instead leaning into the knowledge is power part of it, as Eileen was saying, with all the information and it leads you to feeling empowered, like it leads you to feeling like you have more of a handle, you have more of an idea, you have more of a strategy that you want to try, and even though we talk about there’s no plateau that you get to that you’re just like, okay, I did it.

I win. I’ve [00:36:00] graduated. Even though we call ourselves graduates and alumni we graduated the program, but not like the experiences. I forgot where I was going with that. 

Cheryl Crow: No, but that we are, it’s like a lifelong learner model. 

Gittel Aguilar: Yes. 

Cheryl Crow: There’s things I’m learning 23 years into this and it’s funny ’cause I was talking to my own therapist and he was like, I was saying something that I’ve said in the group before, I may have outright acknowledge it, but I’m like, sometime sometimes I’m like, why am I struggling with this? I’m the person who created the program that’s supposed to help people and I can’t even figure it out myself. Trying to get into a new rheumatologist is my current thing I’m going through right now.

And I’m like, I teach people how to navigate the healthcare system and I can now. That is a lot of pressure to put on yourself, by the way, to say that you’re gonna teach. I definitely don’t say that. I. Successfully teach everyone in the course how to completely navigate the health system. But I don’t think actually anyone knows exactly how to, but at least teach you some basic rules.

But he said what was interesting that he said is so he’s a psychiatrist, and he’s yeah, I actually have a number of other psychiatrists on my caseload. And they’ll say the same thing too. I didn’t [00:37:00] ever thought of this, but like I knew a lot of mental health professionals see therapists themselves, but he’s yeah, there’s this pressure that they’ll put on themselves.

’cause they’re like, I’m a psychiatrist or I’m a psychologist. I’m supposed to know, but it’s so different do knowing how to help someone else versus doing it yourself helping to, just helping people in the group process. It’s like we help each other unburden this pressure to be the perfect patient and do everything perfectly all the time.

Because I think that’s a lot of guilt people carry, they’ll come into the group and say, oh my gosh. My doctor said, or my nutritionist said, I’m not supposed to eat sugar. And then I like totally failed last night by eating one cookie. It’s like there’s literally no evidence that unless you have like celiac disease, you are not harming your body by eating one cookie.

Do you like, we’ll help each other kind of see the forest through the trees and not be like, 

Gittel Aguilar: sometimes you need to treat yourself. 

Cheryl Crow: Yes. Like moderation. One thing people sometimes ask is , do you have groups for just newly diagnosed or like just ankylosing spondylitis, just psoriatic arthritis, or just younger people or older people?

Truth be told, when I first started this, I did [00:38:00] assume that, okay, long term I thought it’d be a good idea to have more specialized groups, and I do think that there’s a very basic human need. When you get diagnosed with something to meet someone else with that exact diagnosis, but because frankly it’s not big enough at this point to have a whole bunch of different groups, what’s ended up being the case that is an unexpected benefit of having a diversity within the category of inflammatory arthritis.

We have a diversity of diagnoses and a real diversity of ages of people in the group ranging from, it’s all adults ranging from about 20 to about I think maybe 80. The majority of people are maybe, thirties to fifties and range of genders. Now that’s not, we’re not as diverse on gender.

We’re not as diverse on racial and ethnic background. But but what’s ended up in my being so great about having a range of experiences. Not everyone’s newly diagnosed. Some people have had it. Christina took their program, she had rheumatoid arthritis for over 15 years. She was like one of the biggest [00:39:00] cheerleaders for it because she’s guys.

I remember what it was like trying to piecemeal this together on my own. You don’t realize the newly diagnosed, how lucky you are that we’re going through this in a step-by-step way. And of course she could just share, Hey, like I survived this horrible flare up, or I had a baby, like having different people in the group.

Very long way to say that. It’s really great having different experiences. Long story short story. Long as some of my friends say. Last two questions. First one, what are your, I know you’ve both answered this numerous times already, but it’s always fun to see today. What are some of your favorite words of wisdom to tell someone who is newly diagnosed with an inflammatory form of arthritis. How about Eileen? Do you wanna go first? 

Eileen Davidson: I would say cross-reference what your information you were finding. For myself it was looking at a variety of pages, not just one, and making [00:40:00] sure, I was checking the Arthritis Society, the Arthritis Foundation, arthritis uk, and wherever, and making sure what I was reading was matching up to everywhere rather than.

See of misinformation that is out there. I think that is one of the best ways to feel empowered is, and of course, your course as well will help them navigate all that too. 

Cheryl Crow: Thank you for saying That’s very true. I provide citations for every single thing that I cite in my program.

With that being said, the science is always changing. The last time I did a massive update to all the slides and all the presentations a couple years ago. There’s already new things I need to add and want to add. So cross-referencing, getting multiple references is so important. What about you gt?

What would you say to someone newly diagnosed? 

Gittel Aguilar: I love that. To actually piggyback off of that, it or to continue that thought, it’s more knowing that everybody’s different, as in every body is different, so even if we have the exact same [00:41:00] diagnosis and are the same age and come from the same area and even have the same diet, there’s no guarantee that our symptoms are gonna look the same, and there’s no guarantee that the treatments that work for us are gonna be the same.

So I, I love that cross-referencing kind of thing because it’s like, yeah, one person said this. But everybody is different, so it could be very different. And the other thing that I wanted to say as well is that it can feel like a lot because it is a lot, so it’s not all in your head. And be gentle with yourself and take things one moment at a time is what I would say.

Cheryl Crow: I love that. One moment at a time. One breath at a time, one minute at a time. I love that. And last one Eileen, what does it mean to you to live a good life and thrive with, in your case, multiple forms of autoimmune arthritis? 

Eileen Davidson: Be able to do what I need to and want to do. But living with arthritis, [00:42:00] you have to make adaptations and learn to pace yourself. So it’s thriving with arthritis means learning how to live with this disease and not letting it bring me down. 

Cheryl Crow: I love that. Perfect example just because this is so topical. We just, Eileen and I just attended the Arthritis Foundation Pathways conference in Seattle, which is really kinda like a volunteer celebratory summit.

And I had all these plans of things I wanted to take her to after the event on Saturday, but we were so exhausted. We went home, took naps, and then watched reruns of Chopped while ordering takeout, and it was amazing. It was so fun. And being able to pivot and adapt and really lean into this is plan B, and that’s okay.

We’re not exploring every single site and of Seattle while you’re visiting and that’s okay. So anyway, that’s, that was just a fun example. GT what does it mean to you to live a good life and thrive with rheumatic disease? 

Gittel Aguilar: Before I answer my part of that. Okay. Yeah, I just [00:43:00] wanna say, ’cause you said plan B and . One of my favorite things is is the alphabet has 26 letters. So if you need a plan C, a plan D put, 

Cheryl Crow: oh, I love that.

Gittel Aguilar: Yeah. But yeah, love for me what it means to live a good life and thrive with autoimmune arthritis.

It means dealing with it, like not ignoring it, dismissing it, gaslighting myself and accepting reality for what it is. And this is something that my therapist told me that I love it. I should probably tattoo it on myself that yes, it could be worse because we say that to ourselves all the time. Right?

That’s not that bad. It could be worse. Yes, it could be worse, but it could also be better. It could also be better. So it is what it is, and dealing with the reality of what it is and not getting lost in it could be worse or it could be better and just. Staying in the moment. 

Cheryl Crow: I love that. I absolutely love that.

This has been so great. I know we could talk about this, these topics, all day long, but I loved just catching up with you both a little bit, and I hope, [00:44:00] people might be listening to this at different times. But you can always look at the show notes to see when the latest Rheum to Thrive support group option is gonna be starting. You can also see it at the Arthritis Life website, arthritis.theennthusiasticlife.com under the Rheum to Thrive tab. The self-paced course is available for enrollment year round. It’s all pre-recorded videos of me delivering the educational information and the support group is of a couple of times a year we that up and it’s cohort based sequential.

You, you start with one group and you finish with one group, you can’t join in the middle. Where can people I’ll put your guys both your links in the show notes, but where can people find you online if they wanna follow you?

Eileen Davidson: I’m easy to find online. Just Google Chronic Eileen on whatever platform you’re looking.

Cheryl Crow: Yeah. You’re so smart. You got it all organized. Much better than me. What about you, Gittel? 

Gittel Aguilar: I was able to get the same screen name on IG and Threads which is Gittel, which is G-I-T-T-E, underscore [00:45:00] gt. ’cause like I said, my name is Gittel and I go by GT. So I wanted that to be represented there. And then on Blue Sky I got an account and that one is just my first name, Gittel, G-I-T-T-E-L.

Cheryl Crow: Oh, nice. You got in early. I love it. I did. Thank you both so much. Not only for being here today, but for taking the time to become my, some, my very first plus Chrissy, and soon to be Lauren, are my very first group of Rheum to Thrive certified facilitators. And this program is very much like my little, quote unquote baby.

And it’s been really, honestly, it’s been, even it’s been so great having you all involved that I’m like, why did I not do this earlier, but better late than never. Self-coach versus self-critic. So thank you both so much and we will follow up with you later. Bye-bye for now. 

Eileen Davidson: Bye-bye. Bye 

Cheryl Crow: bye.

[00:46:00] 

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