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living a creative life with rheu
Patient Stories, Podcast

Living a Creative Life with Rheumatoid Arthritis: Julia’s Story of Dancing, Acting, Writing and More

3 months ago
62 min read
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Video of conversation

Summary:

Julia (J.G.) Chayko shares her story of being diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis as a dancer, actor, and writer. She reflects on the joy found in creative pursuits – showcasing her resilience, adaptability, and commitment to thriving despite the challenges. Cheryl and Julia discuss the importance of self-awareness, the power of saying ‘No,’ honoring the present moment, and the significance of self-worth. 

Episode at a glance:

  • Diagnosis story: Julia went from having a very active lifestyle, to becoming waking up with pain, fatigue, fever, and other symptoms. After initially thinking her symptoms were from a virus or pushing herself too hard in dance, she received a diagnosis of rheumatoid arthritis.
  • Creative Pursuits: Julia expresses joy in dancing, theater, and writing – She shares coping strategies such as planning ahead, giving herself permission to rest and take breaks, social support, and finding positivity through her passions. In addition to her published writing, she is currently working on a novel.
  • Resilience and Adaptability: The conversation delves into Julia’s experiences as an actress, emphasizing the resilience and the ability to adapt to challenges in artistic pursuits.
  • Self-Awareness: Julia encourages listeners to take some time to know themselves and advocate for their feelings. She shares “don’t be afraid to say no”, and honor what you’re feeling each day. 
  • Living in the Moment: Thriving with rheumatic disease includes being mindful of the present moment, honoring oneself, and finding joy despite the challenges.
  • Advice to newly diagnosed patients: Patience – 100% – it’s going to take time. Understand how [your condition] works in your body, and be kind to yourself. 

Medical disclaimer: 

All content found on Arthritis Life public channels was created for generalized informational purposes only. The content is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

Episode Sponsors

Rheum to THRIVE, an online course and support program Cheryl created to help people with rheumatic disease go from overwhelmed, confused and alone to confident, supported and connected. See all the details and join the program or waitlist now! 

Speaker Bios:

J.G. Chayko is a writer, actress, dancer and arthritis advocate from Vancouver B.C. who has published poetry, fiction, and creative non-fiction. She is a contributing writer to three anthologies and has several short works in print and online. She is a graduate of the Writer’s Studio Program and is working on her first novel.

Cheryl Crow

Cheryl is an occupational therapist who has lived with rheumatoid arthritis for nineteen years. Her life passion is helping others with rheumatoid arthritis figure out how to live a full life despite arthritis, by developing tools to navigate physical, emotional and social challenges. She formed the educational company Arthritis Life in 2019 after seeing a huge need for more engaging, accessible, and (dare I say) FUN patient education and self-management resources.

Full Episode Transcript:

Cheryl:  00:00

I’m so excited today to have Julia Chayko, who I have followed her writing and her social media presence for a little while, and I’m excited to talk in real time. Welcome! And can you let us know a little bit about yourself, like where are you live? And what is your relationship to arthritis?

Julia:  00:16

Absolutely. So, hello, everyone. My name is Julia Chayko. I also go professionally by J.G. Chayko. And I live in Vancouver, in beautiful British Columbia, you can see the background behind me is part of our lovely province here. And I have rheumatoid arthritis.

Cheryl:  00:40

Yeah, and I would love to know, you know, start off by just discussing your diagnosis story/diagnosis saga it sometimes becomes, you know, what were your first symptoms and how did you get diagnosed?

Julia:  00:55

Okay. So, just as a little background, I come from a very active background. I’m a dancer and an actress. So, when I was diagnosed, I was diagnosed probably about 13 years ago, and I was in my late, mid- to late-30s, when I was diagnosed. And I just woke up one morning, it was in November, you know, it was the fall, it was dark, and wet, and cold. And I just woke up one morning feeling really, like I had a fever and my joints were swollen and really sore. And I felt really tired. And I thought okay, so, you know, I’ve got a cold, I’ve got a virus, what have you. And then, by the mid after, by mid-afternoon, I was feeling better. And then, by the evening, I was even better still. So, I thought, okay. So, what occurred to me then is oh, okay, so I did too much in dance class, so I pushed myself too hard. So, okay, didn’t think about it. Next morning, I woke up exactly the same way. Again, by mid-afternoon, I started to feel better. Again, by the evening, I was 100% better, and I’m like, this is odd. This continued for about six weeks, then I decided to go to my GP — [laughs] excuse me. And I said, “Okay, so this is what’s happening.” So, he examined me and I happened to be there in the morning when my hands were a bit swollen. And he says, “Oh, I’m going to send you off to a rheumatologist.” So, I got into a rheumatologist very quickly. And he examined me and thought, yeah, it looks like it’s early rheumatoid arthritis. So, that’s how it happened. Now, it was, you know, I don’t know if this has anything to do with it. But prior to that morning, prior to when I started waking up that way, back in the spring, I had epicondylitis of my right elbow, or tennis elbow. I had that for about a month. It went away. And then, it showed up in my left elbow about two months later, and then it went away. So, whether that was a precursor to what was coming, I have no idea. I didn’t think about it at the time. They, you know, the doctor said, “Oh, it’s tennis elbow. Put a brace on it.” Oh, okay, so I did. 

Cheryl:  03:13

Yeah, anytime, typically, whenever they see pain that starts travelling from one joint to another, it’s kind of, it’s an indication, often, of something more systemic. But it could be, like you said, because it disappeared on one side and then appeared on the other and you’re so active, it could be from overuse. So, that’s, yeah, that’s always overuse, yeah. Yeah, but I mean, it sounds like once you started having that week after week after week of symptoms, like, the morning sickness, the morning fever-ish feeling. That is also a data point that’s often signifying this is something bigger, you know, especially with it getting better each evening. So, I’m glad you got referred to a rheumatologist and got your diagnosis early. 

Julia:  04:05

Yeah, I was very lucky. I had a very good GP. And he just, right from the get go, I mean, I wasn’t even in there very long. He just looked at my joints and went, “Okay, we’re gonna send you off to a rheumatologist.” I was like, okay.

Cheryl:  04:19

Oh, my gosh. I just interviewed someone earlier this week, and it’s just fresh in my mind where they had to beg and beg and beg over and over again to get taken seriously. And so, so, I’m just, it’s great to hear the positive stories of like, this is how it’s supposed to be, you know? And so, what was your — it is a strange thing to be a, you know, quote unquote, a ‘younger person’, you know, in your 30s getting diagnosed with something with arthritis in the name. Like, when I was 20, I got diagnosed and that was really confusing to me. Like, what was your response emotionally to the diagnosis?

Julia:  04:59

I think I was just surprised, quite frankly. Like I, you know, it didn’t run in my family, to my knowledge. Now, it’s entirely possible my grandmother could have had it undiagnosed. I have no idea. But I guess I was surprised because, you know, you’re young, you’re fit, you’re healthy. I mean, I was really active person. So, I was just kind of going, how was that possible? You know, and then sort of wrapping your head around the fact that it was nothing that I did, or didn’t do. And it was just it’s a, you know, it is, like you said, a systemic disease. It’s your immune system just sort of turning on you. And, yeah, so I think, really, I was just a bit thrown off, like, really. Even when he was saying it to me, I was sitting there going, “Arthritis? Really?”

Cheryl:  05:51

Same. Same. And I love what you said about you were, you know, you came to the realization that it was nothing that you did. How did you come to that? Like, you didn’t cause this in some way by whatever. But I think a lot of people have this sense of guilt, like, maybe if I had eaten better, if I had exercised more — which in your case, you were active. But if I had managed my stress ‘better’, quote unquote, I wouldn’t have gotten it. So, how did you learn to get rid of that? Or how did you learn that it wasn’t your fault that you got this?

Julia:  06:28

Well, I actually did work in medical for a little while. So, I was a part-time worker in a medical office. So, the understanding of an autoimmune condition was not new to me. What was new to me is that I had it, right. So, that was new. But it was, yeah, I already sort of understood that it was nothing that, you know, this is a type of disease that you can’t control. You don’t know when it’s going to come. You don’t know, you know, there’s nothing you could do to prevent it if you’re going to get it, right. So.

Cheryl:  07:04

That’s huge. So many people struggle with that. So, I think that’s like you’re already in a, I would almost say, I don’t know how to say it, but a more healthy mental state when you alleviate that burden of guilt from yourself. So, I think that’s —

Julia:  07:22

A hundred percent. Yeah, yeah. And I think it is helpful that because I had a background in working in medical, that it was easier for me to understand and, you know, kind of make the plan of what to do next, and sort of cope with it more than somebody who doesn’t have that background or understanding. And then, it’s, you know, it’s a big shock to them, right?

Cheryl:  07:42

Yeah, yeah. And so, what, you know, I always like to go in a little bit, however much you want to share about your treatment plan or your treatment journey. Because oftentimes, it’s sometimes I meet people where it’s linear. Like, I’ve been on the same medicine for 10 years. I’m like, whoa, that’s awesome, you know, and it works. Whereas other people, it’s more up and down. We’ve got to change this, titrate this, you know, so what has your treatment journey been? Like, when I say treatment, I mean like medical treatments. 

Julia:  08:11

Yeah. So, they did start me on a baseline, a first line medication. And I was on that for a little while. And they also, you know, and then I would go in, you know, every three- to six-months to see how I was doing. They eventually added a second one as the disease progressed, and they eventually added a third one. So, now we could say that I was on triple therapy, right. And then, in the last, I would say, in the last four or five years, I dropped one of the medications. I got off it because I found that the side effects were just too much to deal with. Like, the side effects were worse than the disease itself. So, now I’m back to two medications. And it’s those two that I’m still on that have worked in sort of controlling, you know, the biggest part, like the inflammation. Now, I do get flare ups like everybody does. Even when you’re on medication, you still get flare ups occasionally. It’s not the, it’s not the miracle cure. So, there are other ways to sort of take control. And, you know, I guess enhance your own treatment by going to an occupational therapist and learning how to, you know, adjust to things in the kitchen, at work, et cetera, et cetera. Physiotherapy a hundred percent teaches you how to do exercises that will take the pressure off your joints, but keep you moving and keep your muscles strong. Now, physically, as a dancer, I had all that background, that base, that muscle base. And for me, it was really about learning to move now without hurting my joints or without, you know, causing injury to my joints. So, there was some adaptation there and trying to figure out, you know, how far could I go? And what could I still do dance-wise? So, obviously, I was a ballet dancer for a long time. That went right out the window. Because ballet in itself, without a disease, is probably the worst thing for your body.

Cheryl:  10:37

You know when you see pictures of ballet dancers feet? And I’m like, whoa, that’s brutal. Yeah, yeah.

Julia:  10:43

Yeah, yeah. And I do, I do have — my feet are not the healthiest feet. But it’s not generally, it’s not really the disease that did that. It was the years of dance and, and being in the shoes, and on pointe, and all of that. So, ballet is that dance that looks so beautiful and natural, but it is so not because your body is not meant to turn that way. You know, you have that turn out of your hip and, you know, it’s a tough one on the body, for sure. 

Cheryl:  11:15

Yeah. And, you know, when I facilitate the Rheum to THRIVE support groups, a lot of times we talk about, like, we talk about our valued activities and our hobbies and what brings our life joy and meaning. And having to give up something that’s a big part of your life can be so challenging emotionally. I’m wondering, you know, was it hard to give up ballet? Or what did you do instead of ballet, or —? Like, yeah, I would love to hear more about that journey. 

Julia:  11:46

Yeah, absolutely. It was, it was hard to give up ballet. Because it is, it was the first dance I learned and I loved it. But the thing with it is that there are other dances that you can still do, that aren’t quite as hard on the body. So, you know, I had taken, I’ve taken a lot of dance over the years. So, ballet, tap, modern, swing, you know, ballroom, et cetera, right. So, I think what I did is I moved from ballet into, like, the Latin dances, into salsa. And bachata, and those dances. And they were better; they were easier to do physically. But then with even with those, I started to, it got a little difficult. Because if you don’t have a partner that is experienced in those dances, then they grab your hand the wrong way, they hold it too hard, they grab your elbow the wrong way, right. So, it’s sort of a, it was difficult to sort of go to those dances, and then, you know, come away feeling like, okay, well, you know, now my elbow was sore because so-and-so grabbed at the wrong way when he did, you know, lead me into a cross body lead or a spin or something, right. So, even that got a little, little sticky. So, what I did instead is my husband and I signed up for beginner ballroom. Now I am not a beginner at all. But he was and but because I trusted him that he knew, you know, my body and what hurt, and he knew exactly the amount of pressure to put on my hands or my shoulder or my elbow so that I wouldn’t get hurt. So, there was that. There was still that way of moving forward in dance. And the other thing I did is I started choreographing. So, I’m an actress as well as a dancer. So, I’ve been on stage since I was maybe 12, acting. So, I’ve danced since I was five. I’ve been on stage since I was 12 acting. And so, what I did is I went back to the theatre as a choreographer. So, my first big project was in 2017 when I got to choreograph a children’s panto, and it was based on the Wizard of Oz, which was a lot of fun. And so, I got to choreograph about six or seven songs for a group of 14. And so, that was, it was just a wonderful experience. And it was really a way to stay in my dance world, to do the teaching instead of actually doing the dancing.

Cheryl:  14:42

I love that. I really love that. I had this same experience with swing dancing, that when my disease was in remission, I was able to dance just like anyone who didn’t have rheumatoid arthritis. Although I probably should have thought a little more about protecting my joints, you know, because it is a lot of swing and Lindy Hop is lot of traction, the pulling on the joints. But long story short, once my disease got less well controlled, it’s hard. My favorite part about swing was social dancing, you know, dancing with different partners, making friends. And it was hard to have to be like, wait, I want I still want to experience the social, the musical, the athletic release, but it’s too hard. It’s too dangerous to dance with a bunch of different people I don’t know. So, I started teaching too. And I think it’s just a beautiful example of, you know, how you may have to interact differently with your favorite activities, but you can find new ways to do them. Or, for some people, it can be discovering a different activity. Like, sometimes your other activity, like, rock climbing is one. I’ve had some people in the groups have rock climbing, and that’s a pretty challenging one to find. Yeah, there’s bouldering, which is where you’re not actually climbing up, you’re not using the harness and everything. So, there’s kind of substitute things. But, you know, there’s a grief, sometimes there’s a grief when you, like, I’m curious if you ever had that feeling of grief where I’m in this body, I used to be able to kind of have — my brain tells my body to do something, and it just happens. And now there’s this resistance because of the arthritis or, you know. Was that hard like embodying your body? Is that a word — was it hard embodying your body —? No, is it hard to live in a body that suddenly was not moving with the same ease as before?

Julia:  16:45

Yeah, I mean, it was, but I didn’t, I didn’t actually find any grief in it, personally. I just, I got frustrated, sure. Because, you know, I’m not the most patient person on the planet sometimes. So, I’d get frustrated. But really, it’s if you if you have the — if you take the time, there’s always little adjustments and modifications you can make. And it really is about learning what they are. And just, you know, when you have that impulse to do something, your brain says to your body to do this, you just, you need to take that moment to go, “Wait a minute.” Now, can I actually do that without, you know, hurting myself or bringing me any pain? Is there an easier way to do this that isn’t going to, you know, hurt me or give me a setback of some sorts, right? 

Cheryl:  17:40

Yeah, you seem to be a very adept problem solver. Like, I feel like you are —

Julia:  17:47

I think you have to be.

Cheryl:  17:49

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 

Julia:  17:52

Yeah, I think you have to be with chronic illness. I just I just don’t think it gives you any other choice. You either become an adept problem solver, or you sit and wallow in the corner, right. And nobody wants to do that. So, you need to, you know, and it can take time. It’s not something that happens quickly. It’s something it’s a learning curve. It’s something you have to learn over time. So, you have to develop a lot of patience.

Cheryl:  18:18

Yes, yes. Yes. And I, you know, I will say, I think it’s okay to allow yourself permission to wallow for moments, you know, just we don’t want to get stuck in the wallowing. But sometimes I do allow least myself to have a little pity party. But yeah, this is frustrating, you know, I wish my life was easier in respect to health, you know. But this, you know, then at some point, it’s not helpful to stay there forever. But, and I just, yeah, I just think it’s, I think that the people that are able to have the best quality of life are the ones that are able to do what you kind of are, what you are embodying, it’s through words, through your attitude about your condition. 

Julia:  19:03

And I think, I think we are all capable of doing it, but I think it takes people just different, it takes people, some people longer to get there. And it’s just really about learning because we all share, like, we may share the same disease, but we don’t experience it the same way. And that’s huge, you know, because it’s so individual to you, right? Like, you know, I don’t — we don’t all share the same symptoms at the same times or in the same moments. So, it’s very much, you know, really looking at yourself and understanding yourself, and understanding when it’s time to take a moment to step back or, you know, push yourself forward, right.

Cheryl:  19:58

And I wonder if your background as a dancer helped you be in touch with your body. Like, I felt that from being a soccer player, like, I could tell the difference between muscle pain from maybe overactivity versus joint pain from my inflammation. Like, it was not too difficult for me to suss that out initially. But I know people who don’t have any sort of relationship to exercise or athleticism or dance, it can be hard to get that. 

Julia:  20:30

Yeah, it’s difficult. But yeah, I think, you know, I know my body pretty well. Yeah. And as a dancer, I mean, I have, I don’t know how many times I have fallen, or, you know, somebody has, or somebody has dropped you. Like, that happens. When your partner, when you’re, you know, we’re used to, dancers are used to getting hurt. They’re used to sprains, they’re used to bruises, they’re used to, you know, just muscle strains and pulled tendons and all of those things. So, and I guess I know what that feels like in the body. So, I can distinguish that from, okay, so this is a muscle strain from my doing this bending to far in yoga. Versus, you know, versus when my arthritis flares up, and I’m having inflammation in the hands and, you know, it’s all swollen and sore. And it’s like, yeah, it’s a different feeling. And you start to, you start to recognize that. But again, for some people, that can also take time to understand that the different pain that you feel, and what causes it, right. And, you know, that can be frustrating. But I think, I think it’s important just to allow yourself that time, to be patient with yourself, be kind to yourself. Don’t beat yourself up about it, right? Just take a moment, acknowledge it. And, you know.

Cheryl:  21:58

I love that. I love that. The patience is so key. Yeah, and I was so impatient initially, you know, I was like, just figure this out, you got to figure this out. And then, I’ll get to this point where I conquered arthritis, and then I can move on with my life not realizing that maybe I need to live with this, you know? But I definitely want to delve more into, you know, your, to me, fascinating life of a creative life with rheumatoid arthritis, you know. You’ve already, pre-diagnosis, you have a history of being an actress, and you, you know, have done poetry and writing and dancing. And so, you know, I’m like, where do I even get started? You know, you said, you started acting when you were much younger. And what has it been like to do these creative pursuits, you know, with arthritis? Or anything you want to share about that?

Julia:  22:52

Yeah, so with the acting with the stage acting, so pre-diagnosis, I was doing three to four shows a year. And it is a lot of time and energy to do these shows, because it is three months of rehearsals, and then four weeks of performance, right. So, you need to be alert, you need to be energetic, you need to be well, you need to be able to push through. So, after diagnosis, I probably took a break from the stage for about two, three years, just so that I could get my disease under control, right. So, take the time to find out what medications are working, how do we control it, you know, doing the physio, all of that stuff. And then, I got — so now when I go back on stage now, I probably do one to two shows a year versus three to four. So, it’s still there. It’s still in my life. It’s just not as, you know, as extensive as it was. And that’s, and that’s fine. But it’s still there in some way. Like, I just finished in, just in September; August, September. So, in September, I just finished — I started choreographing a musical called the Marvelous Wonderettes. And that was three months of rehearsals, of choreographing 33 songs for four women. And you know, it’s songs from the 50s and 60s. So, it’s the 50s and 60s dance style. But I think, you know, that was probably one of the most challenging things I’d had to do in a very long time. And I really had to plan that out. So, first, I had to sit down when I was offered that opportunity. I had to sit down and go, okay. Do I have the stamina to do this? Like, can I do this? It’s three months of rehearsals. And now, once the show goes up, I’m out of it. So, it’s all them. It’s all the girls performing, but it’s still 33 songs that I have to choreograph for these girls. And so, I really just I sat down and went, okay. So, I wanted to do it. So, I did it. And what I had to do each day was basically sit down and plan my day and go, okay, I’m going to — what are my priorities? And what do I need to get done first? And then, after a rehearsal night, which is probably rehearsals are about three hours a night. So, after a rehearsal night, that second day where I don’t have a rehearsal and I have time off, I have to prioritize break, a break. A rest. And you know, and then the next day, I get back to creating the dance again, and go off to rehearsal. But it really is about sitting there and going, okay, let’s look at my day, see what I can do in the morning that’s not going to exhaust me or take away the energy that I need when I go into the theatre and start teaching these girls, right. And so, it’s planning, it’s really organization and planning. And I like to be — I’m one of those people that think I can just do it all. I’ll sit down on my day, I’ll sit down on my day planner and write 10 things and go, “I’m gonna do all of this.” And you know, I usually end up doing two. So, this is like, yeah, so now I, you know, when I was planning this, when I was planning the rehearsals, I sat there and go, okay, what can I realistically do today? This morning, say in the one aspect, say, my work and my work writing life, how much can I actually do this morning, take that break, after I do it, and then move on to the other aspect of my life. But it really is planning. It really is sitting there and allowing yourself that break and not feeling that you’re a failure because you have to take that break, right. It’s giving yourself the grace to go, this is fine. I need this rest. It’s good for me, it’s good for my body. It’s good for, you know, my mental state. And it’s okay to do this. You’re not lazy. You’re not unproductive. This is part of — your rest is part of being productive, right.

Cheryl:  27:27

Yeah. And that’s also honoring, you know, you wouldn’t feel guilty for eating food, like your body needs food to survive, right, you need to rest to survive. And that’s what I, that’s kind of what I remind myself. And different bodies need different amounts of rest. You know, I think it was like, Bill Clinton famously only needed like four hours of sleep or rest, like, some people are okay with four hours of sleep a night. Like, some people are lucky they can get by with less, but like, even before my diagnosis, I was a big sleep prioritizer. Like, I played college soccer, division three, and but we would, you know, the team would want to, like, hang out for, you know, late before the game. I’d be like, no, I gotta get my sleep, I gotta get my sleep. This is before my diagnosis even, you know. Or even in high school, I gotta go home and sleep, you know. So, that’s, I’ve always been like a morning person and like kind of get tired at night. So, but it’s definitely more — I think your point is so well taken that, you know, having an autoimmune condition really necessitates, like, sleep is not, it’s not a luxury. It’s a need. And not just sleep —

Julia:  28:28

It’s a necessity, yes.

Cheryl:  28:30

Yeah. I do a lot of also giving my, looking at my schedule, like, look at my schedule, look at what I want to do, and then like, take things away from it. Because I know that I can’t do everything I want to do or, you know, say, okay, can I push this to next week and make sure I build in like a rest break in my day, every day. It makes a huge, huge difference. Yeah, I love the choreographing. I mean, just as somebody who’s, yeah, choreographed a little bit of Lindy Hop and swing routines before, phew, 33 songs is, that is a lot of work. 

Julia:  29:04

It’s a lot. It was a lot of songs. But the show did amazing. But the show did very well. So, I was really proud. Because they had almost sold-out performances every night and they got standing ovations. So, you know, and it helps that we cast the right cast, the right, the perfect four girls that just came together so well and worked so hard and put on a beautiful, beautiful show. So.

Cheryl:  29:30

That’s awesome. And another thing I know that you love to do is writing. I know you’ve written for Creaky Joints and for your own website, jgchayko.com. And, you know, written about your experiences with your condition and, you know, what, how has writing, I guess, or what has the role of writing been for you?

Julia:  29:56

Oh, gosh, that’s a tough question because I was, I’ve been writing since I was is five. So, I always knew that I would be a writer. I knew that right from the time I was five-years-old, I was going to be a writer. And I started writing poems when I was five. My great grandmother insisted on thank you notes as all grandparents did. And I, to prevent myself from being bored writing those thank you notes. I wrote her poems. And I wrote her short stories. And she would say to my parents, yeah, she would say to my parents, “She’s going to be a writer.” And I always wanted to be a writer. And but I always thought that I would be a writer after all the dance and theatre was done. So, later in my life, right. I was looking at it as the sort of later part of my life when I didn’t have the energy to do the dance and theatre anymore. And then, that would be my artistic. So, I would go from the stage to the page, so to speak, right? 

Cheryl:  30:55

You really are — you are an excellent planner. I really have to give you this. Like, you had it all planned out. I love this. This is amazing. Okay. So, the stage to the page. 

Julia:  31:05

Yeah, I knew — yeah, the stage to the page. I knew right from the get go right when I was a kid. So, I’ve lived an artistic life my whole life. And that was all I ever wanted. I just wanted to be on stage. I wanted to be an actress. I did stage. I did a little bit of film. Film, yeah, that’s all right. But the stage is, the live stage is the exciting, you know, the exciting challenge. Because, you know, with the stage, you don’t get to say, “Cut,” and do that scene again. It’s live; it’s happening right there. So, the challenge is, is you need to know your character and your lines and everybody else’s lines good enough to be able to cover if somebody should do this to you in the middle of the show. So, you get, you get the deer in the headlight look when another actor forgets their lines, like so you have to be on your toes to be able to save them, or have them save you, whichever happens. But I always knew that I was going to be on the stage. And that’s all I ever wanted to do. And that was my single focus through my whole life. And I always knew that I was gonna write, you know. And I wrote, even all those years that I was on the stage and even pre-diagnosis, I wrote stories, I started novels. I, you know, I wrote just knowing that at some point, this is where I was going to head. And actually, being diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis kind of gave me that that kind of wakeup call of what am I waiting for? Why can’t I write now, right? Like, why? Why? Why do I have to wait until I’m practically retired to do it? Why don’t I just do it now. And so, the first story that I ever got published was about my great grandmother and the farm that she lived on. And, you know, she was the one who said, “She’s going to be a writer.” So, I found it, almost like providence that this was the story, that the first story I ever wrote, the first story that I ever submitted, got published. And that just told me everything right there. I was like, okay, you know.

Cheryl:  33:14

That’s so powerful. That’s so, I mean, one of my selfish reasons for wanting to talk to you is that I want to write a book, too. So, I’m like, I need to figure out her secrets. No, but I also want to, like, touch base with the kindred spirit. Because I’m similar. I’ve always, I love writing, I actually love it so much I didn’t want to do it for a job, because I was like, I worry that making something you love that much as your job would make it not fun anymore. And like I have multiple journalists in my family and people who do amazing work. But anyway, long story short, I relate to you. Like, I didn’t actually start writing anything publicly until after my diagnosis, as well. But your ‘Aha’ moment or your moment of clarity, like, why am I, what am I waiting for, that was a little more deeper than mine. Mine was more just like, people were like, “You should have a blog because you like speaking about stuff.” Like, the Arthritis Foundation, like, where can I learn more, and I was like, I guess I should have a blog. People are blogging, people be blogging. That’s what they do, these kids do these days. So, yeah. But that’s just — sorry. I’m working on not like, immediately responding with my story, but it’s kind of partly how I relate. But also, I want to focus on your story because you are my guest. This is not a solo.

Julia:  34:36

Just let me tell you that if you ever embark on writing a book, it is a huge job. It is a big job. And I’ve got four of them right now on the go. I have four novels that I’m working on. And they’re all four different genres. And most writers will be working on more than one project because, you know, what we call the middle of the story, I like to call the muddle of the story, is the hardest part to get through. It’s really, it’s really hard. You have your beginning, you have your end, but then you have this mushy middle, this muddle that you have to pull through and tie these two things, these two bookends together. And it’s really, really hard. So, I have multiple projects that if I’m working on one, and it just isn’t happening, and the words aren’t coming, and there’s nowhere to go, okay, let’s put that one aside for a little while. And let’s move on to this one and see if this one, you know, kind of goes.

Cheryl:  35:36

That’s great. That’s music to my ears, actually, because I find it very hard to just focus on one project at a time I have. But the other thing I find hard is actually finishing the projects I started. I’m very proud of myself for finishing my course, you know, the Rheum to THRIVE, this self-paced course. And then, there’s a support group. And then I finished, you know, I’m in the process of this podcast. So, I’m like, okay, I do you finish things. But yeah, I have to watch out for that desire, that kind of, I have the kind of ADHD where you want to like start things, like, some people have the kind of ADHD where they have a hard time getting started, and they procrastinate. And I’m like, no, I get started. Woohoo! Let’s go, let’s start it again. They call it like your ADHD hobby graveyard where you have, like, I want to learn to knit, I’m gonna learn to crochet, I’m gonna learn this, I’m gonna write a book. Like, oh, my desktop is full of projects. But yeah, that’s great to hear that that’s normal to have multiple projects. Are your novels — do you mind sharing what they’re going to be about? Or should we like stay tuned? 

Julia:  36:44

Yeah. Yeah, I can generally give you an idea. So, one of the novels that is about probably 50% to 60% through is a thriller. More like a domestic suspense, I think they call it, and it’s about a female serial killer in a small town. Yeah, so, you know, another one of the books that I’m working on is based on my great grandmother on my mother’s side of the family. So, this is a different great grandmother, not the one who said I was going to be a writer. So, the great grandmother on my mother’s side of the family, who was a vaudeville actress in England and New York. And so, and that’s probably where I get it from, that’s probably, you know, and I’m the only person in my family since her to be on the stage and to sort of live this creative acting life, right. So, I feel like she has somehow, you know, embodied me and get on that stage. But I had the absolute joy of being able to go to England this year and just do some research on the places that she had performed in, in the spaces that she’d been in, at least, you know, it’s really powerful sort of to be walking in your ancestors footsteps, and knowing that they walked there, too. And I also got to go to New York and do some research there for, you know, because she passed away in New York, in the early, early 1900s. So, we went there to find where she was buried. We went there to find her, her resting place. And we did. And it was, it was just an amazing, amazing thing. My mother never knew her because she passed before my mother was even a blink in anybody’s eye. But yeah.

Cheryl:  38:35

Wow, that’s so meaningful. And I love that. I love all the vaudeville ephemera, I think it’s called, like this, like, I’ve gone to the — I don’t know if this is maybe the same time period, but I really love in San Francisco, they have the old like Penny Arcade where they have the old, you know how they used to have the, they call it like arcade games, you know. I know it’s not the same exact thing as vaudeville, but sometimes they had those at the same places. And just seeing this handmade, you know, hand carved, you know, things from that, those eras and it’s just as beautiful. That’s so good. That’s so great. Yeah, you have that that string. Taylor Swift calls it the invisible string. I don’t know if you are a fan of her music but I love her. But yeah, that kind of invisible string tying your great grandmother to you. That’s beautiful.

Julia:  39:31

Oh, I was given, because I know that you are Swiftie and that you make the little bracelets. So, one of the girls from my cast actually made me a little beaded bracelet with the word ‘Choreographer’ on it and it was beautiful. It’s amazing.

Cheryl:  39:49

That’s so fun. Yeah, that’s so fun. That’s a fun hobby, making that bracelet.

Julia:  39:54

She’s a Swiftie, too. I kind of got that and went okay, I know where this came from.

Cheryl:  40:00

Yes, yes, she’s revived the art of friendship bracelet making. Yeah, that’s two of the novels. What about the other two? Or are they kind of still morphing?

Julia:  40:13

They’re still, they’re still in progress. One is kind of a literary novel. It’s character based. And it was an idea I got when we were in Portugal last year. And it was just something that came to me. So, of course, I wrote it down and started, you know, writing through it. And the the other one, I kind of got an idea in the summer. And I guess you would call it a fantasy romance. Yeah, and I’m not one to really write romance, most of my writing, other than my arthritis writing, which I try to keep as upbeat and positive as possible and sort of show you, you know, a better, you know, a way to find joy in your life. My fiction stuff generally tends to be darker. I mean, Stephen King was a huge influence to me. And I love his writing. And I love, you know, so my fiction stuff doesn’t usually tend to be light and fluffy. But this but this one, I think, is a little more on the lighter side, so.

Cheryl:  41:26

You know, I was talking with another person who has, she has psoriatic arthritis, Nitika Chopra. She has a podcast that she has a similar kind of supportive community that I’ve had, we both have similar dreams and goals for helping support people with inflammatory arthritis. And we were, we were joking, because we’re like, well, we have podcasts that are like about arthritis. But in our free time in our spare time, I don’t listen to arthritis podcasts, I listen to podcasts about things totally different. You know, I listen to podcasts about music and pop culture and random debates like John Hodgman about, like, is a hot dog a sandwich? Just like fun, funny stuff, you know? So, sometimes it’s like, yeah, your whole life, even though ironically, I called, you know, my podcast and my organization is called Arthritis Life, my whole life is not about arthritis. It’s kind of about living a beautiful, full life with arthritis.

Julia:  42:25

Exactly. I mean, you can’t get rid of it. It’s there. It’s part of you. But it doesn’t have to take center stage. It’s the way I see it.

Cheryl:  42:32

Perfect metaphor from a choreographer. It’s on stage one.

Julia:  42:38

That’s right. It’s in the wings, actually. I try to keep it in the wings. [Laughs]

Cheryl:  42:44

It’s the thing in the trapdoor, when they call it the magic, the door that something just sometimes randomly pops out and then you push it back down, a pop door. No, but, yeah —

Julia:  42:53

For the orchestra, orchestra pit, right. The orchestra pit. 

Cheryl:  42:57

Oh, man, don’t ever go down the, sidenote, don’t ever go down the YouTube rabbit hole of like, people accidentally, actors accidentally falling into the stage pit. Because I got onto that at one point. And I was like, get me off of here. I can’t handle this. This was too scary. But you —

Julia:  43:12

It happens. 

Cheryl:  43:16

Yeah, on the same note, you were talking about with, you know, having your arthritis, you know, be part of your life, but not the center stage. Before we recorded, you know, I asked you some of what did you, what are you most passionate about, you know, sharing about from your story. And one of the things — I loved how you said this — you said, you want to share how you balance honoring the life I had before instead of — so, honoring the life I had before, instead of grieving it. So, earlier, I used the word ‘grief’. And I apologize because I think I had it in my head. But I, yeah, you were saying how do you want to share how you’ve gotten to that place. And you know, what, what would you add to what you already said? 

Julia:  43:54

Well, so I have read a lot of stories of people with arthritis who talk about having grieving their last, their past life. I don’t know if they actually mean to grieve it. But I think what they mean is they they let go of it. I personally, and, you know, we all have our ways of coping, right? You have to acknowledge that you are in a new space in your life. But I don’t think, me, I don’t grieve my past life. I honor it and I celebrate it because they look at it and go, look what I got to do before I got to this moment. And it’s not gone. It’s never gone. No one can take it away from you. Nothing can take it away from you because it’s already been done. And it’s part of you. And when you move forward, you’re taking it with you. You’re taking that with you, right. It’s etched into your body. It’s etched into your memory. It’s etched into your bones. And so, for me, it’s I sit there and I kind of go, yeah, you know, this is what I had done in the past. And a part of that is still with me, even as I move forward. Now, am I going to be able to go forward on the exact same path? Probably not. But that doesn’t mean there’s no path. And, you know, when you have that, when you have your past with you, and all the accomplishments that you had, I think it’s a springboard for moving forward, because it’s like little branches coming off the main tree, right? So, it’s the tree of what you have built. But there’s always a way to branch out into a different direction from that, from that base. So, that’s what I mean, when I say I don’t grieve it, because it’s never gone. It’s always here; it’s always with you, you know. And I realized that that people have to, they have to cope with their change in life. And we all should sit down and acknowledge that. And they have to do it in their own way. And so, this is the way I choose to do it. I choose to sit there and go, I did that. And it’s still with me, it’s still part of me, it’s not gone. So, there’s nothing to grieve because it’s still here. It’s just transformed in a different way. It’s just different. So, that’s what I mean, when I say that I don’t grieve my past life, pre-diagnosis. I’m still alive clearly.

Cheryl:  46:38

Unless we’re all in a simulation. Yes. That, no, that’s — I never thought of it that way. I kind of found myself taking a deep breath as you were talking about, it’s still with you. Like, for me, the first thing that came up was soccer. You know, not being an athlete, being an athlete was a huge part of my identity. Now, people will associate me with being a dancer because I’m, I that was my switch. I switched from soccer to swing dancing when I got, after I got my diagnosis. And that’s how I met my husband, he’s been a huge part of my life. But yeah, it’s like, you’re so right. It’s not like I’m a former soccer player. Well, it’s still my past, it’s with me, and it does get — it does come up and that competitive spirit and that pushing through, you know, like, hey, we got to, you know, we’re gonna get through this. That team spirit part of me, it’s still — I love that it’s still part of you. Yeah, I think I think the grief can come, from my experience, it might just it might be semantics, but is often that I want, I want to still be able to do X-Y-Z, that was easier for me or possible for me prior to my diagnosis. And I cannot do that right now. And that I want to keep doing it to the future. So, I’m glad I could do it in the past. But I can’t do it now or in the future. And that’s bumming me out, you know.

Julia:  48:00

And I look at it, too, as even if we weren’t diagnosed, like even if we didn’t have arthritis, at some point, you’d have to stop playing soccer anyway, because you would just, it would be an ageing thing, right. And, you know, figure skaters have to stop skating at a certain age, dancers have to stop dancing at a certain age, hockey players have to retire at a certain age. So, it just came earlier for us because of the disease. But the concept is still the same. Because when all these people, all these athletes retire from what they were doing, they have to go on to something else. And again, they take that spirit, as you say, of everything they did with them going forward onto a new path, you know, growing a new branch off that tree, right?

Cheryl:  48:48

Yeah, that’s so beautiful. I really love that. And it’s such a point well taken that we all have, we’re going to have limitations. We’re limited by being human, and needing to sleep. So, this is related. But my — or it’s kind of a side note, but related my son, and at one point, he was kind of going through a phase, he’s nine now, but where he was like, “I don’t, I’m so mad that I have to sleep because I have so many things I want to do.” He wants to read more. He wants to talk to his friends. He wants to play with his Legos. He wants all these things. I’m so frustrated I have to sleep. I was like you don’t — we all have to go into that phase of like, yeah, I wish I didn’t need to sleep, I could get so much more done. But like, and even if we didn’t sleep, there are still only 24 hours in the day. So, I think that’s just a super healthy mindset to remind yourself it’s not just arthritis that limits you from doing every single possible thing you could ever want to do in your life. It’s, yeah, it’s being human. 

Julia:  49:49

It’s a lots of factors, right. Right. It’s just we ended up with the chronic illness factor. But yeah, it just happened a little earlier with us, but we still can find, we can still take what we had and bring it with us forwards, right.

Cheryl:  50:07

Yeah, I think a lot of people kind of define their expectations for the future as everyone, it’s kind of unless they’ve already had a chronic illness, most people just assume I’m going to be healthy until I’m, quote unquote, ‘old’, which no one really defines what that actually means. You know, does that mean 65, is the definition of, you know, retirement age in the US? Is it 85? You know, I took I took swing dancing lessons from 90-year-old Frankie Manning, who was one of the founders of, you know, Lindy Hop in Harlem and the 30s and 40s. And, you know, so who knows. But anyway, point being, you know, the more we can extract ourselves, I think, from the expectation that the only good life is a healthy, able-bodied life is, for me, important. I’m just curious, have you — this is, I didn’t, I didn’t tell you this question ahead of time. So, feel free to like not answer, but you seem very mentally healthy. [Laughs] Did you ever go to therapy? How are you, like —

Julia:  51:13

No.


Cheryl:  51:14

How can we all be like you? What, how are you —? 

Julia:  51:17

Not at all. Not at all. I don’t really, I don’t know how to answer that. I’d like to be able to answer that. Like, no, I never. I never went to therapy. But I just, I don’t know, I think, you know — okay, if we’re gonna get into the deep thing here. Acting itself is therapy. 

Cheryl:  51:37

You think what? Oh —

Julia:  51:38

Acting itself is therapy. Acting is therapy, because you go through so many transformations and so many characters. There’s comedies, there’s tragedies, there’s, you know, I’ve played a couple of roles where I had to cry on cue on stage right in front of a live audience, right. So, I mean, it is, yeah, acting itself is therapy. So, I guess, I’ve gone through, you know, the whole, you know, acting thing, but professional therapy, no, I’ve never had that.

Cheryl:  52:09

No, I mean that’s — first of all, thank you for allowing me to put you on the spot like that. I just, I’m trying to, I’m pretty in touch with at least some of the people in the audience of this podcast. Not everyone, like, sends me messages or anything. But I think a lot of times I try to anticipate like, if someone’s listening to this podcast, what are they, what do they want? What are they wishing that I asked the person? Like, one time asked, like, you know, like, you like, yeah, are you religious? Or like, how are you like, so mentally stable? Is it genetics? Is it —? Yeah, maybe it could be family upbringing, you know, there’s always so many factors, you know, having a strong, like, do you have a strong support system, do you think?

Julia:  52:53

I think I do. Yeah, I think I do. I’ve also, I’m also one I’m very extremely independent. And I always have been.

Cheryl:  53:03

Okay.

Julia:  53:05

And I think so maybe, so maybe this maybe this is it. I moved around a lot when I was a kid. And I moved around a lot when I was a teenager. And I moved around a lot when I was an adult. And I think what that has done is just made me adapt to every new change, and every new situation. It forced me to, you know. So, I think I sat down and counted how many times I had moved in my life. And I think it came to something like 25 to 26 times that I have moved, you know, from one place to another. And I’m not talking different countries, I mean, just within this own province, I have moved into a whole bunch of, like, 26 times. And it’s just things that you can’t control, right. So, your parents sell their house and they want to move somewhere else, right. So, you’re a child, you have to go with it, you can’t control that. So, you’re putting to new schools all the time, and you have to sort of find a way to cope with that, right. You know, as an adult, you’re renting a place with your partner, they’re going to sell that place. So, you have to find somewhere else to rent. Or you breakup with your partner. And you have to go and find somewhere else to live. So, I think maybe that may have had a very big role in shaping who I am and how I cope with, you know, things. And then honestly, living as an artist in the theatre, as a writer, it’s not the most stable profession on the planet ever. And really, it is a lot of uncertainty and, you know, moving forward. So, I think that, I think all of that in the background has, you know, possibly created where I am mentally and how I, yeah.

Cheryl:  54:56

Well, yeah, and to be able to be a little more coherent, like, one of my purposes in this podcast is helping people learn how to thrive with inflammatory arthritis or autoimmune arthritis like we both have. And so, there’s so many different ways to get there. And there’s different personalities. Some are introverts or extroverts, some are interested in sport, some are interested in — so, I think it’s just really illustrative, hopefully, for the people listening to see like, okay, this is how Julia did it, you know, or does it. And not to say that you’ve like, reached this pinnacle. Like, I don’t want to put you on a, I don’t want to like put pressure on you or put you on a pedestal like her life’s perfect. And if you just do what she did, you’re gonna be perfect. No, no one’s life, yeah.

Julia:  55:38

No. No, life is perfect. Not even mine. Everybody has everybody has their challenges, right.

Cheryl:  55:45

Yeah, yeah, exactly. But that, I think you really, I think you’re, I think your theory on yourself is correct. That I think that moving around as — I’m laughing, because it’s like, I don’t know you that well. So, I’m like, of course, whatever you say is way more correct than anything I can observe. But, you know, I have, I’m the somebody who I, I would love to still go back and live in my childhood home with my parents and my husband and my child, because that’s how attached I am to, like, things staying the same. So, and my room, my childhood home is 15 minutes away from where I live, and it’s where I’m going to be going on Christmas, you know, so that for me is there is learning that you’ve like moved, you know, 25 times as a child makes complete sense that you would develop this adaptability, flexibility, resiliency, and sense of who you are. You are the constant, you know, versus being defined by your situation and your environment, you know, so that’s really incredible to me, and yeah, I hope that everyone listening is, or I hope it’s inspiring to the people listening. I think it will be. So, this has just been, I just love talking to you. But I do want to respect your time and the time of people listening. So, we have a set of rapid-fire questions. And it doesn’t mean that you have to do like a one-word answer. It could be, you know, it could — it’s just rapid-fire. 

Julia:  57:20

I’ll try to keep it brief. 

Cheryl:  57:22

I mean, do as I say, not as I do, clearly. So, yeah, best words of wisdom for people newly diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis?

Julia:  57:30

Oh, I think we already talked about this. Patience. A hundred percent. You need to develop patience; you need to be patient. It’s going to take time to understand your disease, to understand how it works in your body, to find the right treatment, to find the right way. Yeah, it’s patience, a hundred percent. And be kind to yourself. Don’t, you know, beat yourself up for not being able to do something you think you should do or, yeah, it’s, you know, be kind and patience and be kind to yourself. Put yourself first, really. Really.

Cheryl:  58:04

I love that. I really, really love that. And yeah, I’m still learning those two things. Do you have a — you may not and that’s okay — do you have a favorite arthritis gadget or tool in your toolbox that you use kind of on —?

Julia:  58:19

I do. I have two of them. So, I have a jar opener, a big rubber jar opener, that I absolutely love. Because, you know, just, I just love it to pieces. And my husband a couple of years ago got me a paraffin bath. So, you know, it’s for dipping my hands into this beautiful hot wax and it’s just lovely.

Cheryl:  58:43

I have one of those and it smells like lavender and it’s amazing. Love them. Do you have — this might be hard, this is very open-ended — but do you have a favorite book or movie or show that you’ve been watching recently? This is me loving pop culture, so pop media.

Julia:  58:58

Oh my, God. Well, books, I cannot narrow down a favorite book at all. I have so many favorite books, so many favorite authors. The one that I’m reading right now I absolutely love and it’s called ‘We All Love Jack’. And it’s about an 800, and 800-page comprehensive book about the history of Jack the Ripper. And I am enthralled with it. It’s just the writing is fantastic. It’s gone. Just write into the history of that whole time of the 1800s in Whitechapel, London or England. It’s just, yeah, it’s fascinating. There’s so many, so many. But I love, I love so many books. And, you know, I don’t watch a lot of TV. I read a lot, you know. And but I mean, recently, I just — this isn’t very recent. This is probably maybe about four, four years old now. There was a show that I absolutely loved called ‘Killing Eve’. And it had Sandra Oh in it. And this wonder, this little beautiful blonde English lady who just played the perfect villain and I just loved that show. ‘Cause I love shows, oh, I love shows where you just love the villain, you know? Like, it’s just, yeah, that was, it’s a fun show. It’s fun so you should watch it.

Cheryl:  1:00:32

That’s amazing. I was just listening on one of my podcasts they’re talking about how like Ursula is from Little Mermaid is was like the perfect villain. I was like, that’s such a good point. Yeah. What is so fascinating about villains? Do you have, on a different note, do you have a favorite like mantra or inspirational saying that you say to yourself when things are tough?

Julia:  1:00:53

Tomorrow is a new day with no mistakes in it. And that is actually from Anne of Green Gables. She’s one of my —

Cheryl:  1:01:03

My favorites too.

Julia:  1:01:05

She’s one of my literary, one of my literary heroes. I read that book to pieces when I was a kid. In fact, I thought I was Anne from Anna Green Gables.

Cheryl:  1:01:14

Okay, I’m not kidding you. The two people that I thought I was were Pippi Longstocking. And my siblings have red hair. So, I was like, jealous of the red hair. And so, I was like, but I really deep down have, I identify as being a redhead? Oh, that’s so sweet. That yeah, sorry. You just hit on my favorite book. Yeah. It was Anne of Green Gables and Little Women were the books I read over and over and over. I just love them. Is there anything specific that’s been bringing you joy lately?

Julia:  1:01:53

Well, writing, my writing life, because I write every day. Obviously, having just done the choreography for that show brought me great joy. And actually, in January, I’ll be back in rehearsals for another theatre show where I will be actually acting on the stage. So, it’ll be the first time in about four years because it was pre-COVID, 2019 was my last show on stage. So, this is going to be my, you know, first show on stage since that time, so yeah.

Cheryl:  1:02:25

I only live a couple hours south of you. So, I might have to come visit. Make a Canadian visit, dust off the old passport.

Julia:  1:02:35

There are matinees, so you’d be able to come out for the afternoon and then be able to go back home.

Cheryl:  1:02:42

Yeah, no, that’d be great. Actually, a great point. And then, what does it mean to you to live a good life and thrive with rheumatic disease?

Julia:  1:02:53

What does it mean to me?

Cheryl:  1:02:56

I know that’s kind of an open-ended one.

Julia:  1:03:01

I think, I think it’s important. I think, you know, you either you either find a way to thrive, or you’re just, you’re just not — you just don’t have any life at all, right. Like, yeah, I think that’s a tough question. That feels like a question that could take a long time to answer. 

Cheryl:  1:03:23

Yeah, that’s kind of funny that I put that down — and I feel like you’ve actually shown, you know, that whole writer maxim or axiom of writing where it’s like, show, don’t tell. I feel like you showed through all of your answers what it means to thrive, you know, being resilient, adaptive, you know, looking at what’s possible in your life, rather than only thinking about what you can’t do and what is possible, how can I get there, problem solving, you know, and continuing doing things you love, seems like. That’s my little summary. 

Julia:  1:04:00

That works. 

Cheryl:  1:04:01

Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I don’t really understand the concept of rapid-fire, clearly, because they’re more like a set up questions I want to, like — in some of the podcasts I listen to, they do like a kind of these are the questions we always ask at the end kind of thing. But anyway, do you have anything else you want to share with the listeners before we wrap it up, for the listeners or the watchers on YouTube?

Julia:  1:04:25

Oh, gosh, I don’t know. I think I would just say, you know — ooh. Just take some time to understand yourself, take some time to know yourself. And don’t be afraid to say ‘No’ to people. Honor, what you’re feeling on any given day. And, yeah, just, you know, really, yeah, I’m not articulating it very well, but just really just honor yourself, right. I think that’s the best thing to say is just honor yourself. And don’t feel don’t feel sad if you can’t do something that you want to do. Because it doesn’t mean you can’t ever do it. It just means maybe right now you can’t. But maybe sometime down the line you will. So, give yourself the time. And be patient.

Cheryl:  1:05:27

Yeah, I love it. What I’m hearing through this is like living in the moment versus focusing on — or being present, honoring the present moment exactly where you are, which that’s taken me a long time to do as well. And I followed all your points, I was writing them down because I didn’t want forget, even though this has been recorded, you know. Know yourself, don’t be afraid to say no, I need to hear that every single day because I, again, I have that people pleasing gene where I just — and also, it’s like it’s weird. It’s a weird form of like, don’t flatter yourself too much. Like, the world’s going to keep spinning if I don’t say yes to a project, you know what I mean? Like, this sounds like —

Julia:  1:06:06

It’s powerful to say ‘No’. I think it’s powerful to say no, it’s a powerful thing to go, “No, not this time.” And to say it and know that it’s the right decision for you. 

Cheryl:  1:06:19

Yeah.

Julia:  1:06:20

Well, make it — don’t make it the right decision for somebody else. Make it the right decision for you. 

Cheryl:  1:06:25

Oh, I love that. I love that. And I think it starts with defining your self-worth as you are worthy. Because sometimes I think me saying yes to things is because I think, well, they won’t love me, I won’t be worthy if I don’t say ‘Yes’. I’m gonna let them down and then they won’t like me anymore and they need to like me, because everyone has to like me. Because that’s the rules.

Julia:  1:06:45

Maybe this is the thick skin you get from acting because you get rejected 20 years of your life.

Cheryl:  1:06:51

I have heard that, I’ve heard that.

Julia:  1:06:54

I’m at that, you know, there are some times where I just go, I don’t care what you think. 

Cheryl:  1:07:00

That’s so healthy. That is part of your mental health.

Julia:  1:07:04

Because —


Cheryl:  1:07:06

With the power vested in me, I’m defining you as mentally healthy. I have actually no — I’m not a diagnose — occupational therapists do not diagnose, just by the way, for anyone listening. No, I just, I’m being tongue in cheek. But yeah, that’s a really good view that you have had a lot of practice with rejection as an actress. Yeah. 

Julia:  1:07:29

Yeah. Well, in any artistic event, like, any artistic thing, right. You know, writing, acting, you know, any, there’s lots of rejection out there. And it’s understanding that it’s not you and it’s not personal.

Cheryl:  1:07:46

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Social media. Being on social media has given me the best, having been on social media in my mid- to late-30s through now, early 40s, has been, that’s been like two kind of good forces combining to really reinforce to me that you can’t please everyone. You shouldn’t try to please everyone. And yeah, the world will keep spinning. If everyone doesn’t give you positive feedback 24/7.

Julia:  1:08:16

Wait until you get into your 50s and you will really understand that. 

Cheryl:  1:08:20

I’m really excited. No, I’m like thrilled to be, yeah, getting — ageing like a fine wine. Yeah. And so, I forgot to say earlier that your name is Julia but you go by J.G. Chayko. 

Julia:  1:08:37

Yeah, professionally. So, in my writing, I go by J.G. Chayko. 

Cheryl:  1:08:41

Okay, so that’s your website, jgchayko.com, right. 


Julia:  1:08:49

Correct. Yeah. 

Cheryl:  1:08:51

Yeah. Awesome. So, well, thank you so, so much for taking the time for especially for some of my off road adventures on some of my questions where I’m like, wait, how are you like this, help me be like you. No, yeah. 

Julia:  1:09:07

This is wonderful. Thank you so much for having me. It’s you know, it’s finally so, it’s been so lovely to actually chat with you. After having followed you over the years. 

Cheryl:  1:09:20

Yeah, like on Twitter, like, I agree with her. Yes. I liked this article you wrote, you know, and yeah, it’s wonderful to interact in real time. And, yeah, so hopefully, everyone will check out your website and make sure if you’re listening right now that you can, you know, listen, you if you’re listening, you can watch the interview of this on YouTube. I’m trying to remind people that on my Arthritis Life YouTube channel, or you can go to the website if you want to get like a full transcript. I find that I’m not actually an auditory, I’m not a strong auditory learner. I learned a lot better through reading than listening. So, if you want to read the transcript, you’re like, “Oh, what did she say about this? I want to kind of have to chance to read it,” you can go to the Arthritis Life website, myarthritislife.net. So, thank you again Julia, we’ll talk to you later see you on the stage.

Julia:  1:10:08

Thank you so much. Bye!

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